Sad Developments

[Rtho87]

I'm sorry that I've fallen out of contact with the forum over the last few months! I'm even more sorry to announce that I lost one of my older degus a few weeks ago.


Daisy (who was the sister of the late Annie) went limp and lethargic one Friday. She wouldn't eat and had diarrhoea. I took her to the vet, who thought it could have been a urinary infection or an issue with her kidneys, because of an unpleasant wee smell, but wasn’t 100% certain. She couldn’t feel any lumps, but couldn’t rule them out completely. We decided to try Daisy on Critical Care and medication, before going with putting her to sleep as an option. Daisy seemed to perk up a tiny bit on Saturday, though went downhill overnight. I came back from work on Sunday to find that she had passed away by her heat pad. Alex was a supportive "husband" throughout her last days, cuddling into her or sitting beside her quietly.


Poor Alex is a widower again and now in a cage on his own. After Annie’s death, I adopted two female pups to avoid being in this situation, but the adults didn’t appear to like them, especially Alex! I have just been keeping their cages side by side with a gap they're comfortable with between them. Alex lunges at the girls whenever I push the cages too close and tries to bite (?). One of them (Lily) will make friendly sounds at him and her sister (Alice) will also do this for a bit, before she starts mirroring his actions and making angry squawks. When Lily tries to see Alex, Alice will shove her across the cage and confront him instead. Lily used to fight back and they’d throw each other around, but interestingly, she backs off and sulks in a corner now. I guess she's the lower ranking degu? He used to act in a similar hostile way to Daisy when I introduced them, but fell in love with Annie instantly. I always wondered if it was Annie's influence that united the three of them. 

The girls are about eight or nine months old now, so I understand that it’s not the best time to try and push them together if they’re going through puberty! I’m wondering how long to give them before deciding that it won’t work. I’m also wondering if Alex’s age is playing a factor in the conflict? He’s at least seven years old now (and I’m amazed that he’s outlived his two younger wives). Maybe he’s too much of an old fart to want to bother with a pair of bratty, hyperactive youths? Do you think it would be better to find him a lonely female closer to his age group? 

[deguconvert]

Hi Rtho87! I am so sorry for your loss!! How sad for you and for Alex! How are you doing now?

I think it is a question worth asking, but it is a difficult one to answer. We do have some elderly males on here, that have been paired with younger females . . . sometimes one female and sometimes two. Some of them have been rejuvenated, and others did their best to keep up, but ended up being dominated, which wasn't a bad thing, more . . . unexpected LOL. Most have remained healthy, but there have been a very few that must have been of low health to begin with, and did not live many months following the integration. They passed from health issues, though, not from abuse by the other degus. What I think you already know is that Alex's health is an integral part of the question. We have had a fair number (not the majority, but certainly not an extreme rarity either) of degus whose life span reached 13 years. So . . . maybe he could live, under optimum conditions, several more years yet, if he is in excellent condition. He may be well able to keep up with those sprightly young ladies. How do you judge his health? Is he active and interested in lots of things yet? Good shiny and thick coat? Eats well?

When you describe the increased aggression if you push the cages too close together, is this in the weeks since Daisy died? If so, has it changed at all with more time since her death, or does it continue to be just as intense? Or . . . had you stopped trying, and just haven't put them close in a couple weeks?

[moletteuk]

I'm sorry for your loss.

Theoretically, he should pair up pretty easily with a single female, so I think it might be worth exploring finding somebody else for him. Do follow up with answers to Deguconvert's questions though, because I think she is trying to figure out the chances of the current problem with the younger females being short term or longer term.

[deguconvert]

Yes . . . that is indeed what I am trying to figure out. Thanks Moletteuk.

[Rtho87]

Thanks! I appreciate the posts!


moletteuk:

Theoretically, he should pair up pretty easily with a single female, so I think it might be worth exploring finding somebody else for him. Do follow up with answers to Deguconvert's questions though, because I think she is trying to figure out the chances of the current problem with the younger females being short term or longer term.

I'll keep an eye out in case I see any nearby! I found a lone degu at an RSCPA branch near my location, but unfortunately, it's a male degu and fairly young (two years old). I can't see Alex getting along with him, even if they're kept in a separate room to the girls. Here's the link in case someone here can rehome "Nibbles".


deguconvert: 

When you describe the increased aggression if you push the cages too close together, is this in the weeks since Daisy died? If so, has it changed at all with more time since her death, or does it continue to be just as intense? Or . . . had you stopped trying, and just haven't put them close in a couple weeks?

His behaviour hasn't really changed ever since I got the girls. He's become more vocal towards them following Daisy's death, either sounding like a whimpering puppy or a clucking chicken. He did make a friendly sound at them the other day... While also lunging at the bars and making nipping motions. I've also noticed that he scent marks more frequently. He's developed a new habit where he'll let me stroke his chin and tummy, then lift up his back leg like a dog and try to wee on my hand. :/ Some thanks!  

What I think you already know is that Alex's health is an integral part of the question. We have had a fair number (not the majority, but certainly not an extreme rarity either) of degus whose life span reached 13 years. So . . . maybe he could live, under optimum conditions, several more years yet, if he is in excellent condition. He may be well able to keep up with those sprightly young ladies. How do you judge his health? Is he active and interested in lots of things yet? Good shiny and thick coat? Eats well?

He's a nice mix of active and laidback, but goes hyper when he sees the girls. He eats well. I was going to say that his fur coat is in excellent condition, but just today I discovered a bald patch on his back. He's been shedding lately, but from what I read, they shouldn't go bald when they do and it's a sign of an underlying problem. Do you think he's stressed about the girls or Daisy's death? I admit I probably made the bald patch bigger by touching his back when I was trying to study the area. Here are a few photos:

Just posting these as links in case they pop up HUGE: Picture 1  

Picture 2 

Picture 3 

[deguconvert]

As per his behavior over the girls . . . he might just be trying to "claim" you as his, by weeing on you. OR he could be asserting dominance over you. Weeing on us, is kind of considered a compliment of acceptance and "you're part of my colony". Usually the more you are part of the gang, the more they wee . . . or so it seems. FUN, Huh?

As for the hair, it looks a bit like a three year old with scissors decided to give him a hair cut. MY kids when they were little did some barbering with each other, and had very similar results. LOL! What I think you are potentially seeing, at least with the round bald spot, is Alopecia, which degus are genetically prone to, just as they are prone to diabetes. It isn't usually long lasting, and should correct itself within a couple of weeks. Sometimes there will be a few spots in succession, and then they will stop appearing as suddenly as they started. Stress can be a catalyst for it, but isn't always. Spontaneous Alopecia is not uncommon. It is nothing dangerous, is not indicative of health issues, and is not to be worried about.

If the skin were discoloured, or inflamed, or forming scabs/weeping, then you would have an underlying issue that needed attention. The skin in your photos looks pretty healthy to me.

[Rtho87]

LOL at the hair comparisons, deguconvert! Happy to report that his fur's grown back now. 

Relations between the three degus have improved drastically. They've calmed down so much that I was bold enough to hold a meeting between them today. It started off with lots of boxing/attempted humping/weeing on each other/squawky sounds, but they settled down after a bit and groomed each other (Alex on the far right): 



 

[deguconvert]

WONDERFUL pictures!! They look very happy with each other. So glad to hear this update!! Well done, Rtho!!

[moletteuk]

Nice one, looks good