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Post by bouncy on Sept 26, 2018 8:55:44 GMT
I'm wondering if the squealing was because one of the pups had spotted your razor........  |
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Post by hpdegus on Sept 26, 2018 12:27:31 GMT
Haha, ya, I moved that right after I took the picture. Pickett decided to take a flying leap to that ledge, so good thing!
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Post by hpdegus on Oct 16, 2018 20:53:38 GMT
Apparently today is my update day! Pups and Fred are still separate. Newt and Fred can hang out for any length of time in the bathtub just fine. Yesterday, Pickett started picking fights with Fred as soon as they saw each other. Nothing awful, no one hurt, which is good. I dont know if it's just that time of year, or what. It was very sudden. I'd like to put Newt with Fred, see how that goes, but I dont want to separate Newt and Pickett. We'll see how the next few days progress.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 17, 2018 12:18:42 GMT
I just thought I would mention something that makes a difference for some people, especially if the degus are being bratty rather than full on hate each other - it can be possible for you to assert some dominance yourself, depending on how the degus see you and how they respect you. So, you can do things like shouting and telling them off when they fight, even blowing in their face or some kind of air puffer. You can withold affection and attention after aggressive behaviour, avoid treats after negative behaviour.
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Post by hpdegus on Oct 17, 2018 21:08:00 GMT
Thanks for the advice Molette. I'm going to try to do that. I'm fairly certain Fred thinks he owns me, so we'll see how this goes. I've attached a link of an interaction fairly typical of the past two days. Though there are times when Pickett karate kicks Fred. youtu.be/Z6haLp1Sj4I |
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Post by bouncy on Oct 18, 2018 0:04:12 GMT
I've got to say, all that behaviour looks normal to me. Even the goo lost in the towel! When you say karate kick, do you mean the girly slap, girly slap, girly slap, flying roundhouse kick? If so, that's also very normal. Sausage and Spud will often spend half an hour doing just this for fun! Try putting supermario sound effects with it |
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Post by hpdegus on Oct 18, 2018 0:31:14 GMT
Hahaha, your post made my day, Bouncy!
Goo lost in towel (Newt) loooovveeesss to run around under towels. I'm going to have to try to make a dig pit for them.
Yep, theres definitely that going on. I see a lot of lunging and angry squealing. I can definitely wait longer to separate them, especially since I've seen no signs of the FBOD. I'm so much more cautious with the pups than my other group, which may actually be detrimental.
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Post by bouncy on Oct 18, 2018 9:55:26 GMT
Pups can be rather resilient! Sneakygoo has been seen snatching food from the mouths of adults, and headbutting them!
Perhaps consider making or buying a fabric tube for your goos? I had one, and it was great to see them run through it. Spidey played cat and pounced on anyone in it, and Spud would have a fight with it when he walked past it!
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Post by hpdegus on Oct 18, 2018 21:57:21 GMT
Oh man, Sneakygoo has guts! I'll have to let them be longer then, see if they settle or get worse. Ohhh, great idea! They'd adore that. I don't have access to a sewing machine (and my sewing by hand is awful) so I'll see if I can find anything for sale  |
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Post by bouncy on Oct 18, 2018 22:11:37 GMT
The one I had was like parachute fabric. It didn't have anything to hold up the middle of it, so it was like they had to burrow through it, but there was a foam ring sewn in to either end create an opening. Not managed to find another, so I'll end up making them |
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 19, 2018 9:56:17 GMT
They look annoyed and uncomfortable with each other in the video to me, but I don't see anything alarming. I wonder if some more distractions but nothing too desirable might help them not focus entirely on each other, maybe some sticks or twigs. Keep watching and listening and you will start to figure out the patterns of behaviour and hopefully figure out the stages of annoyance moving towards aggression so you will know when things are escalating and when it is necessary/normal dominance.
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Post by hpdegus on Oct 19, 2018 12:58:36 GMT
Awesome, Molette, I'll try more distractions. They start shoving immediately, probably because I transport the pups in the sand bath. Maybe I should try a cardboard container instead. Good to know that there isnt anything too alarming!
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 19, 2018 16:36:59 GMT
Something to note, after watching the video again and realizing I had noticed it the first time as well, but couldn't put my finger on what I was seeing . . . Fred is "wee waddling" which means he is very intentionally marking territory, and is working at maximum coverage, zig zag pattern. ROFL I'm pretty sure this has to do with claiming space . . . and when he approaches Picket, I think he is thinking of humping Picket and Picket can tell, but is not going to tolerate it. So there are already signs of the dominance dispute that is natural and common among degus. It isn't "to the death" fever pitch in there though, so it isn't worrisome at this point.
Have you heard/read us discussing the strategy of taking the dominant degu position with your degus? I'm wondering if doing so now would be helpful toward bonding them, and then again in the future if/when their adolescent hormones and the haze of potential power mania settles in, you will already have practice at it and can then hopefully shorten the duration of that stage by asserting again that you are top degu. Do you know or understand what is meant by being top degu?
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 19, 2018 16:44:46 GMT
I noticed Fred's strange posture, but I didn't realise exactly what he was doing!
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 19, 2018 17:02:32 GMT
LOL! It was only on watching it through again that I recognized what I was seeing. My boys did this a lot, and it was only once I began to see the pee trails that I put it together. It's just been a few years now, and I didn't put it together as fast as I used to.
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Post by hpdegus on Oct 21, 2018 21:54:27 GMT
Hi all, sorry for the delayed response! I had to travel for work, so this is the first day they've been back in the bathtub since Wednesday.
Haha, Deguconvert, I also noticed that posture and hadn't thought it fully through! That makes a ton of sense. And was very in line with what I'm thinking of their current interactions. I'm totally fine with the normal dominance scuffle (have three other boys going through their first 12 months of life), I just have zero experience with intros or pups, so this has been very helpful. It seems like Pickett is fine with Fred nearby for the most part, just isnt going to take being mounted.
I have read about being Top Goo! I will try, we'll see how it works out. I think Fred has decided that I am his, as he regularly pees on me when he's out.
I've also added more distractions to the tub. And made sure that Fred didn't have access to the sand bath while I moved the pups in. So far, much better interactions!
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Post by hpdegus on Oct 21, 2018 22:48:09 GMT
Ok, so we lasted an hour before something weird happened. Pickett was grooming Fred, then went belly up. But then he moved and all the sudden then were upset with each other. After a bit, Fred partially pinned Pickett on his back, but then Pickett ran away.
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Post by bouncy on Oct 21, 2018 23:46:15 GMT
For Pickett to roll over and expose his belly shows how relaxed he is with Fred! Wonderful!
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Post by hpdegus on Oct 22, 2018 0:08:05 GMT
For sure, I thought it was Newt at first, since Newt always does that with Fred. But I'm just confused as to why that woul spark annoyance and a fight. It just seems odd to me. And then Pickett spent the rest of play time avoiding Fred, and they were grinding teeth at each other.
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 22, 2018 4:48:21 GMT
Going belly up is also a very significant sign of submission. When our first three boys were in conflict and the main contestant for dominance finally submitted to the reigning king, he flipped on his back, exposing his belly right in front of the king's nose. For the next week, he did this regularly, reinforcing his submission . . . as well as beggin for a grooming. It totally cemented the hierarchy within the group.
I'm thinking that Pickett had something of a brain fart and in his very relaxed state, went belly up without actually intending to signal submission. Then it very quickly dawned on the little social climber what he had just done, so he flipped over hoping that it hadn't been noticed. However, it WAS noticed, and now Fred feels like he was promised dominance and then the promise was withdrawn. So now Fred feels lied to and cheated, and Pickett feels that he has to be on guard all the time because Fred tried to force the promise to be kept. I think you may see an escalation of aggressions in the days ahead.
Is it a soap or political drama? LOL!
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