Sisters fighting

[ingvild]

My two degu sisters are not friends anymore. They're both 1,5 years old and recently the third sister, who was top degu, died in an accident. At first we didn't notice any changes with them, but now after 2 months it has gotten pretty bad. Titi keeps sqeaking rapidly and loudly and runs away from Dido. Dido chases Titi everywhere and jumps on her when she gets close enough. There hasn't been any real fighting yet though, because Titi keeps running away. They are both very stressed and frightened of sounds and of us. We have a whole room for them and a reasonably sized cage. We often just open the cage up and let them run around in the room, as there is nothing in there for them to destroy or get hurt on. Now Dido seems to be guarding the cage and patroling around the entrance. We took the wheel out and put it on the floor, and Titi just keeps running and running in it. At one point Dido sat perfectly still inside the cage making a sound I've never heard before, and when Titi slowly approached her, she waited until she was really close and then lunged for her again. There is also a lot of grunting and rapid teeth grinding going on. Poor Titi seems utterly terrified of her sister :-(. Dido also turns her back on Titi and shakes her tail, but Titi only makes high pitched squeaks and runs away. I know that they need to work out who the boss is now, but I'm scared to leave them alone (but I really need to go to work). Do you guys have any experience with similar scenarios? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Ingvild

[bouncy]

Hi!

I'm afraid it's the death of the third sister causing this, as you say. You do also have to leave them to it. Us hooman slaves don't like to see our goos squabble, but we often intervene too soon, which leaves unresolved issues and prolong the problem. Go to work, let them figure things out,and try not to worry.

One of mine died suddenly at the weekend. He was doted on by two pups that moved in with him two years ago. They behaved strangely for quite a few days, and there's been squabbles, but I've had to leave them to it. I'm sure they blamed me for a while. Things are settling down nicely, only five days later

[moletteuk]

I'm sorry for your loss.

It is quite common for degus to struggle to reorder the heirarchy after the loss of the top degu, it can take months. It is also common for degus to focus on territory when they are having a dominance battle, and it sounds like you are experiencing that too.

Sometimes out of cage playtime can cause dominance issues as they fight over that large area, but things remain settled in the cage itself. I don't know how big your cage is, but I'm wondering if you could alter the territory in some way that might settle them down quicker, for example restricting them to the cage (if the cage is big enough) full time. This can mean they have less to fight over and they settle the territory dominance more quickly. Other small things you can do are making sure there are two of everything essential, like wheel, feeding places, nests. If you did want to keep the access to the room, you could consider making a second entrance to the cage so it's impossible for Dido to guard both entrances. You can also make sure there are plenty of perches just big enough for one degu so that Titi can have somewhere safe to take refuge.

The other thing you can do is try to insert yourself into the heirarchy and tell them off when they misbehave. You may have to think carefully about this though, because you probably also want to reinforce Dido as top degu, if that's the way the heirarchy is looking like it needs to go. So you can shout and blow if Dido is acting aggressive, but you can hand feed treats to her first to reinforce her position.

Does it seem like Titi is refusing to submit to Dido, or does it seem like she doesn't know how to show submission?

[deguconvert]

I'm so sorry for your loss and the resulting chaos. I have nothing more to add to what Bouncy and Moletteuk have already said. It is a difficult transition and I hope you, Titi, and Dido get through it soon.

[ingvild]

Thank you all for your advice. It is really heartbreaking for me because they only have each other now, and they need to get along. The situation has changed a bit after I came back from work. Now it seems like Dido isn't trying to attack Titi anymore. She sits patiently by the wheel where Titi is running and when Titi stops she carefully sniffs at her. Titi is really agitated and snaps at Dido while still making the same hight pitched squeaks. Titi is still avoiding Dido and runs away every time Dido gets in the wheel with her. Dido is now just quietly and constantly stalking her sister. Dido seems calm now, and even grooms herself in front of Titi. Titi doesn't seem to want to engage in any fighting, she just wants nothing to do with Dido, so I'm not sure if that is her refusing to submit or her not knowing how to. Dido is the one who constantly seeks out the other, while Titi just seems so annoyed that her sister won't leave her alone. At least now the whole situation seems less tense, so I'm not as scared of them seriously injuring one another at the moment.

[deguconvert]

Something that occurs to me is that it is possible that these two don't really like each other all that much, but because of the presence of the third sister, things were not in conflict. However, with her loss, that potential conflict is now evident, and they are having to work it out because there is no mediary anymore.

[bouncy]

Have a look at them when they go to sleep later, and see if they're cuddled up together. That, at least, will be a positive sign.

[ingvild]

They sleep in seperate places, sadly. The fighting is still going on, and now I'm finding tufts of hair on the floor and in the cage, and scratches on the degus :-(. It is still the same, Dido chases and Titi runs away. And Titi is the more violent one who lunges at Dido and snaps at her. I've seen them being locked in a fur ball, but it only lasted for 1-2 seconds most. It could be possible that they don't like each other at all. They are also so worked up most of the time now that they don't eat or drink much. It seems like there isn't time for anything but chase- fight- run-rest.

[misscatafer]

I would separate them before one of them gets seriously injured or worse. What cage are they in, is it easy to divide?

[moletteuk]

I would also consider a separation at this point, even if it is temporary for them to rest and cool off.

The fact that they aren't sleeping together indicates that the dislike runs quite deep at the moment.

[savvy]

I'd separate them too, if only to allow tempers to cool.

[moletteuk]

I don't know what options you have for separation, but if you want to keep it temporary for now, then try and put Dido elsewhere and keep Titi in the home territory (or else you will cement Dido not letting Titi back in to the territory).

[ingvild]

Thank you all for your advice,I will try to separate the cage, because this is only going to tire us all out. We have a custom built solid wood cage with a glass front, and we have some spare wooden panels that are the right size to just divide the cage down the middle. That will have to do for now. Right now I've put Titi inside the cage and Dido on the outside. Dido is constantly trying to get in, it seems to me like she is actively hunting Titi now. When I came home from work today Titi was hiding away perfectly still in a new nest. She looked really tired and beat up with a wound on her foot and some small patches of fur missing. Dido has a small scratch next to her eye, but thankfully the eye itself looks OK. I'll have to keep an eye on it. My poor poor degus :-( why are you doing this to yourselves?

It was all better when Cleo was alive. Here they are, with Titi (short for Nefertiti) at the bottom, Cleo (short for Cleopatra) in the middle and Dido at the back.