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Post by gooray on Mar 14, 2018 22:40:20 GMT
We have four degu brothers, originally started out with 3 and found out one of them was a female. We gave the female back to the breeder and took two of her degu boys (they're all from the same litter) and tried to introduce them. They fought quite badly so we separated out two and two. Two of them got along together quite well, but the two we had longer kept fighting so we separated them as well. The cage is large, but the third cage we have is small. We want the four of them to get along so we've waited a couple weeks and tried reintroducing just one to the two that get along well. We have tried this twice and each time the new degu was very skittish and seemed to actually cause the fighting due to his skittishness (running away from both degus). He keeps running around fast and while the other two seem nonchalant, they get worked up when he runs. There have been injuries on both sides. Is four degus too many to have? There were several months between getting the first three we had and getting the two new brothers.
Is there any hope of reintroducing them? They have been separated horizontally so their scents could mix. Is there anything else I can do to help make the introductions easier?
Thank you!
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Post by bouncy on Mar 15, 2018 1:35:45 GMT
Introductions are always tough.
First off, they were probably rather freaked by leaving their home, then losing their sister, and then seeing brothers again who are also freaking out. Degu freakiness is easily contagious, leaving them all looking confused when the impending disaster doesn't happen.
First off, let them all calm down and get used to the new environment they're in. The different sounds, smells, and routines take some getting used to. Watch their interactions with each other at the bars. You want to see them either sleeping at the bars with each other, happily warbling, or acting with total indifference. Swap handfuls of substrate between the cages.
I'm not sure where you tried to introduce them, but go for somewhere confined, neutral, and open, like the bathtub. Remember that they do need to box, mount, and squabble to establish their hierarchy. It can be awful to watch, but it needs to happen. Intervening too soon often means they don't have a chance to clear their issues, and can lead to frustration and confusion. If they do end up in a furball, tho, separate them quickly. Take your time. You may have meets that go for ten minutes before fighting breaks out, or ten seconds. You may also find you take a step forward, only to take two backwards because one of them missed out on their favourite bit of food, or got out of the nest on the wrong side.
I know you said you have large cages, but could you please tell us the dimensions, number of levels etc? Many hugely underestimate the space that degus need to be happy, and territory is extremely important. A lack of space will cause territorial fighting, which is in contradiction to everything you're trying to achieve.
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Post by jon&mim on Mar 15, 2018 11:32:41 GMT
Our brothers are the two extremes - when they get on they are perfect, when they don't they really go for each other ... Literally this week Brian appears to have really hurt Terrance's eye and I am not sure if I will risk putting them together again! Howeverrrr...... I did manage to get these guys to live together after over 2 and half years apart which seemed impossible to begin with.
At first me and my husband would sit on the sofa together and each hold one brother, they could see each other and smell each other (which they could do in their cages but instead of the wire separating them, we were) then after a little while we would swap and they could then investigate our clothing which had the other goos scent and fur over. We did this for a couple of months, it seemed to take forever but as bouncy says, introduction are really tough. One day could go really well and then the following day it feels like you have take loads of steps backwards. Once we could trust them to stay peaceful next to each other on our laps, we then started putting them in the bath every few days for about half an hour on average without us getting involved. At first they really couldn't be in there very long as they would get so skittish and violent. After several weeks they started to groom each other and warble, letting me to increase the time they could stay together. You do have to let them squabble to establish dominancy which was difficult at times but it does need to happen. After a while I bought a wire gate pen that I could set up in the middle of the room that they couldn't climb out of and let them play for an hour at a time, with access to water but no food.
If food was involved/available it would start arguments straight away, even once we had got them into a cage together I would only leave hay in there and anything else I would feed them outside the cage separately for a time until I was certain it was ok. Despite having two bowls they would always try and steal from the others and it could escalate really quickly.
From the very beginning of holding them on the sofa to being able to get them to live in the cage together took me over a year of effort - they are my first pair so I am not sure if that is how long it would normally take but it is definitely not a quick task! But I may also have an incredibly stubborn pair too and I was too cautious to begin with!
I would say that my boys have now injured each other several times to the extent of having to get vets involved I am not sure if I will ever house these together permanently again. But neither of mine act depressed or sad when housed on their own as they come out for several hours every day (I work from home), they get loads of attention from us (we have grooming brushes etc and do our best to try to replace the missing goo) and I still let them play in the pen on the floor when they are both in calm moods.
Let us know how you get on!
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Post by klbishop on Mar 16, 2018 9:47:22 GMT
Hiya, I think that what I would suggest is already covered. Go slow, have a good pair of thick gloves ready for any FBOD.
Intros are hard work and stressful but they can be successful. Have you read through the intros section? some good case studies and diaries of the process
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 16, 2018 16:23:27 GMT
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