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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 15:07:41 GMT
Well that sucks. What a fool. I wouldn’t have left Boo with him either.
Good luck on Friday! Who are you booked into see, a vet?
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Post by misscatafer on Jan 16, 2018 16:16:27 GMT
Gavin, I'm dropping her straight off for the procedure. Hoping that Rob can drop her off for me then I'll collect her, otherwise it will be a 2 hour trip!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 18:12:20 GMT
Gavin, I'm dropping her straight off for the procedure. Hoping that Rob can drop her off for me then I'll collect her, otherwise it will be a 2 hour trip! Oh nice! Yay Gavin!!
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Post by misscatafer on Jan 19, 2018 10:18:08 GMT
Boo is now at the vets, Gavin was fantastic! She was so good, although would only be held by me (when Gavin tried to pick her up she had a little squeaky tantrum). Bad news is... He quickly found a large lump on her chin, which is most probably the incisors growing down into the bone. He does not believe she has any spurs at all based on her eating and health. He thinks the fact she flinches and lunges when touched on one side of her face is behavioural, she was probably poked and teased by the young children she lived with previously. Soo.... He is going to sedate her and have a proper look, but the likelihood is it will mean starting a regime of frequent teeth trims to manage the incisors as treating the problem is risky and invasive (tooth extraction: could lead to broken/misaligned jaw or worsening tooth problems)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 11:25:54 GMT
I’m sorry about the news 😞 but I’m glad you had a good experience with my vets! Gavin is a cool guy right? Very to the point but very smart and good at what he does!
I hope all goes well with the sedation 💗🤞🏻
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Post by bouncy on Jan 19, 2018 13:58:14 GMT
I'm sorry for you and Boo. Please don't be sad, tho. yasmin and I have goos that are still going strong, despite teeth
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Post by misscatafer on Jan 19, 2018 17:13:04 GMT
She's home now was really perky and alert, you would never have known she was sedated or had a procedure done! She's had a nut as a reward for being so good and is now cwtched up with Toby on the snuggle safe. It wasn't good news unfortunately. She has extensive dental disease. Two of her back teeth are overgrown and were overlapping her tongue, almost touching and trapping it! I was shocked that she has been eating, drinking and gaining weight when I saw the photo! The rotten tooth is causing it's opposite to also overgrow so both were discoloured. She had a small ulcer on her right side of her tongue from the pressure to it. The tooth is rotten to the root and is affecting her jawbone, leading to the gap being formed in the lower incisors. It is also growing down past the jaw and she has a hard lump of bone under her chin which will eventually become an abscess. The only cure for this is to remove the rotten tooth, but it is risky and may cause the jaw to collapse, misalign or break. Gavin said he would not do it for this reason. He said I could go to Manor vets and have it done... But they would not do it without a CT scan, and after paying for this they may not be able to do it if there is already too much damage to the jawbone. So basically it is a choice of either risking her life and health to remove the issue, or just manage it with regular trims of the teeth and antibiotics when the abscess emerges. Very sad, he does not think she has long left, so I'm just going to make sure she is as comfortable as possible. The good thing is that he was certain she is/was not in pain from this, however if we had not got her in when we did then most certainly the tongue would have been cut open or it's movement restricted.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 17:43:20 GMT
Oh wow!
Oh my gosh!
Poor Boo! But at least you did take her in and now her problems have been spotted!
The photos are very interesting.
How old is Boo?
Dental disease is SO common in degus it’s scary.
I’m glad Gavin was able to tell you so much, I hope it didn’t cost you too much.
What are you going to do?
If you would like to know, if it was me, I would choose to manage it with trims and antibiotics. I don’t think the risk is honestly worth it.
She will have a great rest of her life with you and Toby and I think that’s more than enough for her, being able to live with you, and you are a wonderful goo mama.
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Post by misscatafer on Jan 19, 2018 19:15:36 GMT
Aww thankyou! Boo is 5 now the little love. Gavin feels it is most definitely caused by her previous owner's choice of food, and that this has been going on for quite a while, much longer than when we rescued her (we got her last May). He said we have probably slowed the process down by improving her quality of life which was nice to hear I thought I would share these photos as they do tell alot and there has been a lot of recent discussions about teeth issues. I am 100% with you, we are not going to attempt any tooth extraction, just enable her to have a comfortable and happy life when I start seeing signs of discomfort, weight loss or difficulty eating I will book another trim for her, and if the abscess emerges I will get some penicillin injections to give her (feel glad I'm a nurse so am used to this stuff!) Update : just to add though, Boo was not showing any signs of dental disease other than her bottom incisors growing slowly apart.... Which shows how vigilant we all need to be! She even gained 40g since the chaos on November... Which shows she was still eating and drinking fine despite having those god awful teeth!
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Post by yasmin on Jan 20, 2018 3:46:05 GMT
Very interesting to see the photos. Thank you for sharing. Many of my goos have suffered from this. It is difficult to tell whether a spur is developing or not, or if it is causing an issue because the symptoms depend on where the spur is. Dental issues may be due to what they were fed by the previous owner but there is likely a genetic predisposition to it as well.
I agree with not doing the extraction. My vet says tooth extraction in a degu is risky because their jaws are so small and fragile, and it is likely to cause the degu to suffer a lot of pain while healing. Yes, she will need to have dental work done regularly but it can be months before the next spur.
I have also had goos who had the roots growing downward past the jaw line. They can live quite a long time with this issue. It eventually needs to be treated with antibiotics and anti-inflammatories when infection sets in and/or when there is further damage to surrounding tissue, but mine have lived many months, even over a year/year-and-a-half with this and had a good quality of life up until the very, very end. (I have also had goos with roots growing into the eye socket, and roots growing into the nasal cavity with the latter being the most difficult to manage because it affects their ability to breath through their noses.)
How is Boo doing? Is she on Metacam (pain killer/ anti-inflammatory) and/or an antibiotic?
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Post by claire on Jan 20, 2018 4:27:37 GMT
My little man had similar issues he had the teeth over the tongue and a side tooth was so rotten my vet pulled it out with her fingers.. then developed an abscess under his jaw where the rotten tooth was. Now I don't think it's to do with diet... I've had my boys for 2 years and I have been on these forums for longer as I researched before buying them and always follow what these forums recommend. I think it's just a degu thing. One if those unknown things it just happens. My boy fully recovered I did get told he would need regular trims. That was in October and so far he's had issues Those pictures are really interesting to see. I can see what effect they have on the tongue now. All these poor fur babies. Wish we could figure it out so they don't have these issues anymore . :/
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Post by misscatafer on Jan 20, 2018 9:25:49 GMT
Boo is doing OK, she has been worn out since returning home and has just been resting on the snuggle safe, getting up occasionally to drink and eat. She is managing all foods fine so far. She is less active than usual but I assume that's due to the procedure yesterday. No she hadn't had any medication, it wasn't advised? If I sense she is in pain I'll give her some Metacam.
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 20, 2018 19:43:45 GMT
I"m sorry for such distressing news, Misscatafer, but am SO SO glad that you moved so quickly to have her looked at! I think you have definitely given her a much better future with all that you have done for her, before this, and now with this. You know what to be looking for, and you know how to help her going forward. You did great! Well done, love!!
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Post by misscatafer on Jan 20, 2018 20:15:05 GMT
Thank you! We were both feeling very sad about it last night, but you are right, at least we can give her a wonderful life and know what to look out for. The vet was fantastic, I really appreciated that he took a photo and then went through everything with me so it was clear. She has been less active today and taking more care eating her food, I guess this is all normal? Toby has been singing to her all day the little love, he is such a star with her!
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Post by ntg on Jan 20, 2018 20:51:08 GMT
Now I don't think it's to do with diet... I've had my boys for 2 years and I have been on these forums for longer as I researched before buying them and always follow what these forums recommend. I think it's just a degu thing. One if those unknown things it just happens. It's likely to be a combination of diet and genetics. I say this because Sherlock had a small spur and the possibile beginnings of dental disease when I got him 11 months ago. His diet has been changed dramatically as I was only given pets at home nuggets and no signs of hay in their cage when I picked them up and now his teeth have been perfect ever since with a good diet. Yet genetics plays a big role in a lot of things, so it's likely that some, like Sherlock, may have an increased risk of developing dental disease if the diet isn't right. At the same time, we have cases which seem to be mainly caused by genetics like yasmin's groups are concerned - she feeds a good diet but the majority of hers (who are all related in some way) have or have had dental disease. Yet there have been reports that diet can impact on the frequency of spurs forming, where degus would frequently need trims every 2/3 months before the change, and then 6 months or so after - bouncy's experimentation with vitamin D supplementation is a good example of that.
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Post by ntg on Jan 20, 2018 20:56:50 GMT
The slow eating is quite normal shortly after dentals as Boo's jaw will be a little sore from being stretched open!
I'm so glad you took her to see Gavin, it definitely looks like it wouldn't be long until she'd be in a lot of discomfort from those spurs!
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Post by misscatafer on Jan 20, 2018 21:28:18 GMT
OK, hopefully she is not in too much discomfort. I'm glad I too her in too. I was worried I was jumping the gun by taking her in when she wasn't showing any symptoms, but I had a feeling something was wrong, and am really glad I went with that instinct.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 21, 2018 3:27:11 GMT
I asked about antibiotics and Metacam because of the injury to the side of her tongue. As long as Boo is eating and there is improvement every day, then medication is probably not needed. I expect the vet would have prescribed it if he was concerned about inflammation or infection. (If you notice a set back, don't hesitate to give her a dose of the Metacam and see if it helps.) Glad that she is eating - that is an excellent sign. I've had times when my goos don't start eating until after 24h hours from when they return from dental work.
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Post by misscatafer on Jan 28, 2018 9:38:32 GMT
It has been just over a week since Boo had her trim and sedation. She is doing well and is almost back to her usual self, eating fine, active (she is on the flying saucer right now ) she is still being careful when eating nuggets I have noticed. She is accepting a lot less fuss from us! Especially Rob, who hasn't been able to stroke her since the vets. She always has been nervous of males, but I'm wondering if the vets was quite traumatic for her and she's lost a bit of trust (as Gavin was male). I've also noticed her poos have gone back to being teeny tiny... Is this anything to worry about? I weighed her two days ago and she was 248g, only a loss of 1g since vets so she is maintaining.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 28, 2018 14:25:13 GMT
Good to hear she is doing OK.
Tiny poos isn't great, it means some kind of gut disturbance, usually a sign of eating calorie dense foods and not enough fibre, but there could be more to it or other reasons. Is she eating much forage or hay? I think I would try to get some Critical Care or Recovery Plus or even a little Vetark Pro C probiotic (which you could a little to the water if she won't take recovery food).
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