haaj
Foraging Degu
Posts: 99
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Post by haaj on Nov 29, 2017 16:45:04 GMT
It's certainly worth thinking carefully about diet, plenty of forage, good range of oil seeds including high calcium and some nuts would boost fat content. The pup will be lacking in social skills or maybe food was a little scarce so has a tendency to be a bit feisty, anything can happen with introductions, even with pups. It's sounds like you made the right decision to put him in the spare cage. Re: diet, thank you so much. This is perfect advice! Re: anything can happen, isn't that the truth! Degus are just so incredibly unpredictable, and each one I've known had a very unique personality.
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haaj
Foraging Degu
Posts: 99
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Post by haaj on Nov 29, 2017 16:56:40 GMT
Four weeks is the earliest, some pups nurse up to five weeks. These are really in the barely weaned stage. It is a very young pup yet, which is what causes me great concern. The pup could be stunted in multiple ways in his development, being so early parted from his parents. The story I mentioned, which you would like to read, can be found here deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21378/newborns . . . but just realize this is not the usual reaction of an adult to a pup. PLEASE discuss your thoughts, concerns, or questions with us so that we can help you with all that you are working to accomplish for this new little one. I know that you have a great heart to help and give this young pup the best possible life, Haaj. The only thing I can tell you that can - maybe - validate this early weaning, at least a little bit, is that the owners' cage was really small, and there were eight pups in the litter, and at the 4 weeks point the mother was clearly very tired of them, I think they told my wife the mother would actually push them away at times - I'll ask her later when she wakes up. I'm very concerned for the poor little goo, too. It was heartbreaking to see him sleeping alone, and knowing we can't do anything. At 3 AM we were so worried we improvised a little warm water bottle with some covering, for him to maybe cuddle with or at least have a small source of warmth for a bit, but the pup didn't understand it (or didn't want it), and we felt terrible. I can't tell you how happy we are to see him getting the grooming and the care he needs from other degus, even if it's intermittent - hopefully he's learning something from this.
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Post by bouncy on Nov 29, 2017 19:22:19 GMT
I Think it's clear that the cage has a new alpha! I'm glad the others have accepted him enough to let him sleep with them - that's bound to make him feel better
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haaj
Foraging Degu
Posts: 99
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Post by haaj on Nov 29, 2017 19:34:20 GMT
So anyway, we decided to keep the pup in the spare cage this night as well. Nothing's changed from what I last described, but the adults follow the pup almost all the time and we think he's getting a bit tired of the attention. Here are two images! Here's one of today's achievements: And here's the pup posing for a press portrait:
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Post by bouncy on Nov 29, 2017 21:00:36 GMT
He is absolutely adorable!!
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Post by savvy on Nov 29, 2017 21:29:17 GMT
He is absolutely adorable!! He knows it too!
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Post by Bexi87 on Nov 29, 2017 22:46:43 GMT
Look at those ears! ❤️
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Post by bouncy on Nov 29, 2017 22:52:17 GMT
I think Bexi87 is going to be travelling this world kidnapping our cutest goos!
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Post by Bexi87 on Nov 30, 2017 7:31:02 GMT
Nah, only Sausage. My 3 are gorgeous enough 👍🏻
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haaj
Foraging Degu
Posts: 99
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Post by haaj on Nov 30, 2017 9:13:41 GMT
So we've put the pup into the spare cage last evening, let our adults out, and what happened was, the pup started doing these fast circles around his cage (just on one level, running in circles), the adults came to the cage obviously not understanding why he's there, and he started squeaking a lot. We weren't sure what was happening... did he miss them already? So we put the three goos back in the adults' cage and were rewarded very soon by a degu pile of three degus. They kept cuddling all through the evening, and we left them like that for the night, checking on them every time one of us woke up. It went perfectly. Right now we seem to have three very happy goos doing everything together. There isn't any fighting, and very little mild squabbling.
Knowing how unpredictable these little critters are, we're keeping an eye on them at all times, but I like to think we've crossed at least one bridge here...
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Post by bouncy on Nov 30, 2017 10:01:13 GMT
Excellent news! I'm so glad that, after a rough few days, he's found two uncles that have given him a family! It's amazing to see such extreme separation anxiety after such a short time! You'll have to keep us posted on his progress now,particularly with pictures
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Post by moletteuk on Nov 30, 2017 11:52:33 GMT
Oh phew! That's a relief that they accepted each other with just an initial wobble. Did the pup submit in the end? Or was it not that clear what happened? Pup is completely adorable
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 30, 2017 17:21:20 GMT
Pup most certainly is adorable! Perhaps the two older degus were just really uncertain as to what to think or do and acted instinctively, but that was quickly overcome in the hours between the first meet and last evening. I' really thrilled for you with the turn toward peaceful bliss between them all!
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haaj
Foraging Degu
Posts: 99
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Post by haaj on Dec 1, 2017 12:10:19 GMT
So, after all that the adults decided they don't know anymore who's in charge, and they've been squabbling a bit too much last evening. A lot of boxing, non-stop for over 90 minutes. It wasn't very intense, but it was almost bedtime, and we were afraid that if the fighting got more intense, the adults could accidentally hurt the pup. So we had to put (more aggressive, it seemed) Ex-Little Spot into the spare cage for the night. Today after some free run time around the room, some of which they spent fighting, the adults returned to the cage and a FBOD emerged. Had to separate them again and put Ex-Little Spot into the spare cage again, and he bit my wife in the process... Now Friedrich is playing the "a squeak every few seconds" game. At least the pup is unharmed and seems calm for the moment. *sigh* I hope Friedrich will cuddle with him.
Update: Friedrich stopped squeaking, but Ex-Little Spot has being going around the cage constantly repeating this little sparrow-like sound, "chirp-chrip", always two syllables. Even when drinking or eating. We've done our best to examine them both, but they're extremely jittery and it's not easy - but we didn't see any wounds. Will have to check properly later when - if - they calm down.
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haaj
Foraging Degu
Posts: 99
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Post by haaj on Dec 2, 2017 11:49:01 GMT
No improvement whatsoever, unfortunately. We have to keep the adults in separate cages: the pup is staying with Friedrich in the large cage, while Ex-Little Spot is in the spare cage. We let the adults out a couple of times to see how they would interact, but they're still super-pissed at each other, teeth chattering and an occasional attempt to lunge through the bars. Looks like we'll have to go through a long reconciliation/re-introduction process, which is really heartbreaking. It's astounding to us - these two have never been apart in their life, and Ex-Little Spot has just spent his first night alone, and it still wasn't enough to at least warble a little bit when meeting his brother... *sigh* I'm worried about what the pup is taking from all this. Friedrich seems to be generally OK with him, grooming him, sleeping with him; sometimes he's a bit too tired of the pup, though, and runs away from him, giving a loud squeak as he does so. Maybe we should try changing the positions, moving Ex-Little Spot into the large cage, and Friedrich into the spare one, and repeat that every other day or so? We have no idea how Ex-Little Spot is going to treat the pup, though. Through the bars he seems interested rather than hostile. I'd love to hear any suggestions. We've had a very depressing day yesterday because of all that. It's so sad knowing that it'll be a while before the adults are roaming the rooms together again
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Post by zenaida on Dec 2, 2017 13:49:17 GMT
I am not sure what you should do in this situation, but I can say that switching off Friedrich and Ex-Little Spot between the cages is not a good idea. Degus do best with introductions when things are settled. Their "feathers get ruffled" very easily and that makes introductions all the more difficult. If you're switching who is in what cage it throws off the dynamic all over again. They perceive the cage as "their territory" and switching throws that into dispute and makes them more likely to contest. I would figure out who is living in the spare cage and keep it like that until all can be reunited.
I'm not experienced enough to know who should go where, but I can affirm best practices: keeping them in cages that are close, but far enough that they ignore or ask for each other (not close enough that they are displaying aggression to the other). It is best to swap bedding and sand bath material between the cages very regularly so they have each other's scent. Finally only take the "next step" when things are settled and there are no signs of aggression.
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haaj
Foraging Degu
Posts: 99
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Post by haaj on Dec 2, 2017 20:49:26 GMT
Thank you - won't be switching them between cages, then. So far we're just doing what I described above; we let the adults go for short free runs around the room, during which they have an opportunity to interact closely (placing the smaller cage on the floor). So far the sides are still set on keeping the hostilities going. Meanwhile, here's a picture of the pup exhausting Friedrich's patience, this time by using Friedrich's face as a ladder to get closer to the very interesting camera which surely must be full of interesting, possibly edible, things:
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 2, 2017 21:40:56 GMT
What an adorable photo!!
I'm just going to ask, are you sure the pup is male?
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haaj
Foraging Degu
Posts: 99
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Post by haaj on Dec 3, 2017 0:03:37 GMT
You got me worried there for a bit. Here are two late night photos we've just made: Looks like a definite male to me?
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Post by ntg on Dec 3, 2017 2:06:25 GMT
Looks like a little boy to me too
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