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Post by clearsparkle on Nov 4, 2017 13:37:37 GMT
How terrible is it for a Degu to live alone?
I have a loan Degu she is happy signs of depression would be lack of energy!
Does Dave need a bigger cage?
Nope not for one degu. I have a similar cage but mine didn't come with levels but my Degu loves to bounce from ledge to ledge.
Should introductions of same sex/opposite sex Degus be left to more experienced owners?
It is up to you don't feel pressured into doing something you could end up with two huge cages and two sets of Degus there is no guarantee it will work. Even people who put opposite sexes together have problems. Are you prepared for two separate cages or 3 or 4 depending on how well he does or dos'nt bond with the first.
What could the chewing mean?
Once you let a Degu out the cage they want more! He may want a female companion if your not there all day but be warned neutering can cause death also females can reject a male goo who is incompetent.
I would be interested to know how it goes not just initially but long term as Peggy says she has many males that couldn't be introduced successfully. Some males will bond and then month or years later try to kill each other. The safest option is male and female but like I said neutering risks the death of your Degu. The decision is yours. I have had many pets and I can tell you that unless you have the time money for vets and eight years of two separate cages to deal with I would consider the pros and cons as many many degus end up rehomed because the cages becoming overwhelming and most Degu owners can't cope!
Statistics show 80% of pet owners rehome their pet within the first two years! The main reason being lack of time or the basically the novelty has worn off.
I hope it works out for Dave but don't be disappointed if it dos'nt.
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Post by clearsparkle on Nov 4, 2017 14:32:38 GMT
A quote from wood green animal rescue.
If you can’t find a suitable companion for an older, single degu, you shouldn’t be unduly concerned as they can live alone quite contentedly. The lone degu will appreciate it you spend a bit more time with it and if you make extra effort in providing enrichment.
I just wanted to add I had other pets who bar chewed even though they had a companion and a huge cage! Maybe add a bigger wheel first see if that helps.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 14:48:53 GMT
How terrible is it for a Degu to live alone? I have a loan Degu she is happy signs of depression would be lack of energy! Does Dave need a bigger cage? Nope not for one degu. I have a similar cage but mine didn't come with levels but my Degu loves to bounce from ledge to ledge. Should introductions of same sex/opposite sex Degus be left to more experienced owners? It is up to you don't feel pressured into doing something you could end up with two huge cages and two sets of Degus there is no guarantee it will work. Even people who put opposite sexes together have problems. Are you prepared for two separate cages or 3 or 4 depending on how well he does or dos'nt bond with the first. What could the chewing mean? Once you let a Degu out the cage they want more! He may want a female companion if your not there all day but be warned neutering can cause death also females can reject a male goo who is incompetent. I would be interested to know how it goes not just initially but long term as Peggy says she has many males that couldn't be introduced successfully. Some males will bond and then month or years later try to kill each other. The safest option is male and female but like I said neutering risks the death of your Degu. The decision is yours. I have had many pets and I can tell you that unless you have the time money for vets and eight years of two separate cages to deal with I would consider the pros and cons as many many degus end up rehomed because the cages becoming overwhelming and most Degu owners can't cope! Statistics show 80% of pet owners rehome their pet within the first two years! The main reason being lack of time or the basically the novelty has worn off. I hope it works out for Dave but don't be disappointed if it dos'nt. There's some good advice there clearsparkle but there's just a few things I'd like to point out for future reference! Degus won't necessarily always show signs of depression but it doesn't mean they should be alone. They live in very large groups in the wild which is why we recommend groups of 2-3+. They are very social creatures and they simply cannot get what they need solely from their human. You cannot groom them, speak to them and interact with them the way they would with another degu. Degus in their cages don't do well with ledges. They're pretty clumsy and aren't good climbers! They're ground squirrels and cover large areas in the wild, having large territories. Degu cages need full levels, of 100x50 as a minimum (although 92x50 is acceptable as that's the size of commercial cages which are close enough to guidelines), and several of these levels to allow the degus to get up to top speed when running and to have enough territory to keep them entertained and happy, it allows them to exhibit more natural qualities. Ledges won't allow them to run, it means they have to jump about and risk falling and really reduces the amount of space available to them! ☺️ Part of degu ownership can entail having multiple cages and introductions. It usually ends up happening to all of us. Degus are fickle creatures. There's no need to be put off introductions and making your degu happy due to additional cages. If there's no space where your degu cage currently is, try moving it around the house to somewhere there is space available! It's a part of degu ownership - they take up a fair bit of space unfortunately. It's rare as has been said above, for a degu to never get along with other degus - the benefits of introductions outweighs the risks. There are rescues that will help with introductions and allow you to keep trying different degus - they want them rehomed just as much as you want a friend for your degu. Responsible owners who are rehoming will also do this, as they will be aware it might not work and they might not get on. Neutering is very unlikely to cause death. We have a LOT of degus go under anaesthetic for dentals, as dental disease is on the increase, and death really only happens if you put a very sickly degu under, who is already extremely weak. You have a risk of infection yes, you also have that risk if the degu gets some other injury through XYZ. It is invasive, and they need a few days of downtime, keep things clean etc and it shouldn't be a problem. Most rescues neuter their males. If it was that dangerous it wouldn't be common practise 😁. I'm not saying everyone should jump and get their degus neutered, but the risk of death is low. Male degus who have been neutered still are able to mate. They just don't produce any sperm. I have two male/female pairs and they mate regularly. I don't really think it works as you've explained it personally. Degus are social, so they're not just looking to mate and make babies, if you can't make babies then you're no good. Yes they might not get on, there's still that factor - but it won't be due to the fact he is "incompetent". Humping is also a dominance tactic and females hump each other too. My one female humps my male. Bonded males trying to kill each other sounds like there's something else going on - lack of food, resources, space and so forth. Cages that are too small are often the cause for severe fighting amongst bonded pairs. It's very often not the degus who are the problem, but the environment. It's a little irresponsible to have pets if you cannot afford veterinary treatment and you know this at the start, that should always be in mind when considering getting any pet. Of course people's situations can change, that in itself is entirely different. We are all human after all! For degus, as you can't really get worthwhile insurance, it might pay to have a little piggy bank where you put money in every month to save for any vet bills if you don't think you'd be able to afford surprise vet visits, basically your own insurance jar! ☺️😁 Just don't smash it open for money on a night out or something (like I did when I lost my debit card, whoops lol)! I think as long as you do your research on an animal before buying/adopting them, cages shouldn't become overwhelming as you should already be well informed on the space they are going to require, the time and so on x Degus are fantastic pets and as long as you're well researched from reputable reliable and up to date sources then there's not really any major problems. The issue comes down to people not searching pets they're buying, being given bad advice and crud pet shops dishing out absolute rubbish and mis sexing animals, that's why lots get rehomed x |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 14:51:12 GMT
@clearsparkles Dave isn't an old degu, an older degu is sometimes an exception.
Old means sort of 7-9 in age, however we've had degus on the forum that have lived until 11-12 years old - so imagine if you decide 7 is too old to find them a friend or two, that's another 4-5 years alone. That's a long time to be alone x
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Post by ntg on Nov 4, 2017 17:03:15 GMT
How terrible is it for a Degu to live alone? I have a loan Degu she is happy signs of depression would be lack of energy! Just like humans, depression can present itself in many forms in degus. Yes with some you would see lack of energy but we also have known them to start going off food, start fur-pulling, start self-mutilating, become neurotic (by becoming very clingy and attention-seeking or by doing repetitive behaviours such as bar chewing) or even start sahowing signs of aggression towards humans. A lot of people note that their degus get friendlier towards their owners, fooling them into thinking they're happier alone when in fact it's simply because they aren't getting the stimulation and socialisation they usually do when they have other degu friends. Instead they start trying to replace that socialisation as best they can by getting closer to their humans. Yet we can't replace other degu company - we can't be there 24 hours a day, I personally can't speak degu - I can mimic them to some degree but I could be telling them the degu version of "shut yer mouth" for all I know  - and unless you want to get fur in your teeth you can't really groom like a degu (could be good for flossing though). Then along with those basics, they love to sleep in piles, which they can't do when they're alone and they can't play fight with you, both of which are important daily social interactions with other goos. Please do consider getting your Cotton a friend, clearsparkle, it's an extremely rare degu (less than 0.1%) that prefer being on their own. I adopted an old boy 5 years ago who was 6 years old - fortunately he was already bonded with his three 4 month old sons when I got him - and he only just died from arthritis in September. If he hadn't been given friends, that's 5 lonely years he would have had ahead of him, or even worse, he wouldn't have had those 5 years as he may have pined away for other degus. Please consider also giving an older degu friends - they appreciate it just as much as the young ones do! |
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Post by clearsparkle on Nov 4, 2017 17:48:22 GMT
How terrible is it for a Degu to live alone? I have a loan Degu she is happy signs of depression would be lack of energy! Just like humans, depression can present itself in many forms in degus. Yes with some you would see lack of energy but we also have known them to start going off food, start fur-pulling, start self-mutilating, become neurotic (by becoming very clingy and attention-seeking or by doing repetitive behaviours such as bar chewing) or even start sahowing signs of aggression towards humans. A lot of people note that their degus get friendlier towards their owners, fooling them into thinking they're happier alone when in fact it's simply because they aren't getting the stimulation and socialisation they usually do when they have other degu friends. Instead they start trying to replace that socialisation as best they can by getting closer to their humans. Yet we can't replace other degu company - we can't be there 24 hours a day, I personally can't speak degu - I can mimic them to some degree but I could be telling them the degu version of "shut yer mouth" for all I know - and unless you want to get fur in your teeth you can't really groom like a degu (could be good for flossing though). Then along with those basics, they love to sleep in piles, which they can't do when they're alone and they can't play fight with you, both of which are important daily social interactions with other goos. Please do consider getting your Cotton a friend, clearsparkle, it's an extremely rare degu (less than 0.1%) that prefer being on their own. I adopted an old boy 5 years ago who was 6 years old - fortunately he was already bonded with his three 4 month old sons when I got him - and he only just died from arthritis in September. If he hadn't been given friends, that's 5 lonely years he would have had ahead of him, or even worse, he wouldn't have had those 5 years as he may have pined away for other degus. Please consider also giving an older degu friends - they appreciate it just as much as the young ones do! Thanks for your reply. I have been led to believe it's impossible to bond goos over a certain age. Your post is making reconsider and doubt what I was led to believe. Can they really bond? I've read through the intro section wouldn't it be best to split my own cage rather than buy another cage. I'm worried it has a high failure rate and I would be left with two single goos😔 |
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Post by ntg on Nov 4, 2017 18:03:44 GMT
It's definitely not impossible! We have one member who isn't very active but adopts a lot of older goos. From what I remember, she prefers to neuter her males and give them a female friend. However, neutering is not something to take lightly as it does carry some risks and you want an experienced vet who has successfully neutered degus in the past if you decided to go down that route as it's not as straightforward in degus as it is in other animals. How old is Cotton? Actually, now I think about it, am I thinking he's a he and he's actually a she? I seem to assume every degu is male these days  |
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Post by misscatafer on Nov 4, 2017 18:03:52 GMT
How old is Cotton? I successfully bonded a 5 year old female with a 2 year old neutered male. Introductions took a week, they had been living side by side for 4 weeks before I started face to faces. Both had been alone for a long time and were desperate for each other's company. You can split the cage, make sure the meeting place is on the same level, and use double mesh to avoid bites through the bars.
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Post by clearsparkle on Nov 4, 2017 18:05:04 GMT
I got this off
degutopia
Note that it is not strictly necessary to go through what can be a stressful introductions process in all cases. Degus are able to form a very strong bond with a dedicated owner and learn to see them as another degu and a valuable companion. Therefore if your degu has been alone for several years and you are able to spend a lot of time with them to give the attention that they need, it may be better for them not to have to endure the stress of introducing another degu. In most cases, however, degus can benefit from the company of another degu, and so the stress of the process is marginal compared to the benefit they receive at the end. Really it is up to you to be the best judge of your degu and do what is right for them.
I was thinking Cats are also extremely social animals but they still do well on their own with lots of attention. I had two kittens once and they played together always but it was too much for my family having two so we adopted one to another family member. For the first 2 days the kitten was sad but after that she became really friendly with us and has never had problems since she is much more socialable now. I'm not saying the ideal is keeping one Degu no way I 100% agree Degus should be kept on pairs or groups but there are circumstances beyond us that means we only have 1 Degu and it seems that health issues from being alone are unfounded. Yes humans can't survive alone but there dos'nt seem to be any research similar with domesticated pets as long as they recieve plenty of attention.
My thoughts here are that the whole circumstances of the pet owner need to be taken into consideration first. The person who has first posted is convinced she needs a bigger cage and more Degus but what if she has all that only to find her Degu still bar chews and she becomes overwhelmed with the responsibility of more Degus. I think if she is away all day getting another is great for the Degu but this may not work out as I have been led to believe intros don't always work or even last.
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Post by bouncy on Nov 4, 2017 18:09:35 GMT
Please...... Take what you read on degutopia with a pinch of salt until you have verified it elsewhere. The site was great, but degu husbandry is constantly advancing as we learn more about them. The owners of the site have not updated it for several years, due to ill health. Some of the accepted practices have changed significantly.  |
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Post by clearsparkle on Nov 4, 2017 18:10:25 GMT
How old is Cotton? I successfully bonded a 5 year old female with a 2 year old neutered male. Introductions took a week, they had been living side by side for 4 weeks before I started face to faces. Both had been alone for a long time and were desperate for each other's company. You can split the cage, make sure the meeting place is on the same level, and use double mesh to avoid bites through the bars. I want the best for cotton they told me cotton was a boy but I checked her and she is 100% female she is quite big I am thinking she might be pregnant the shop said he had to be separated from his brother due to severe fights now I think she may be pregnant she dos'nt stop eating. So in the end if she does have babies I guess it's a blessing in disguise because I will keep all the females she has. However I need to wait 3 months to see. She is now about 5months old. If she dos'nt have babies then I will definitely consider getting her a friend but I need to do a lot more research from all the conflicting advice I'm getting I don't want her to be sad but I also need to make sure it's the best choice for her and our family is able to give the best to more than one even if that means another cage in the end. |
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Post by bouncy on Nov 4, 2017 18:13:51 GMT
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Post by ntg on Nov 4, 2017 18:30:39 GMT
Although cats aren't solitary animals, they aren't pack (or in this case colony) animals so they do better on their own. Degus aren't truly domesticated like cats, dogs and rats. They're relatively new to the pet industry so a lot of their wild instincts are still there, including their need for socialisation. Certainly, domestic animals such as cats and dogs can be on their own, but cats are well known to be more suited to a full-time working environment than dogs (a true pack animal). Separation anxiety is rife in these animals, some worse than others and yet they have gone through millennia of domestication - they still need socialisation of some form, and it's often made better by having more than one dog in the house i.e. Having a constant companion. Rats are a closer comparison however, and hopefully this might help to argue the case for not keeping a lone degu www.curiousv.com/curiosityrats/files/infolone.htmlYes, intros might fail or they may bond and then fight later down the line. It's a risk we take because we know that the vast majority of degus crave other degus company. I'm in the early stages of intros myself with one of my remaining 5 year old boys and a pair of 4 year olds. He wasn't showing signs of depression but he was a shell of his former self for the few days he had no degus around him. As soon as I brought him up to my house where I keep my other pair (my parents were looking after my original grouping while the house was undergoing a refurb) and within seconds of seeing him his personality snapped back to about 90% of his normal self. He's still on his own but in a cage beside him and now 6 weeks later he's 95% back to normal. I can vouch 100% for other degus - even just being side by side - can make a huge difference. Yes it means either separating your cage or having one side by side but to me, it's worth the inconvenience of having more space taken up in a room that is still in the process of being a building site. |
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Post by davethedegu on Nov 4, 2017 19:54:29 GMT
Hello clearsparkle, I really appreciate your post and concerns about me and people in general not being able to cope because I have definitely thought about that, two giant cages in your bedroom is a turn off for most people, unfortunately for my mother, I'm slightly crazy so I am so excited to add to the family. I am definitely worried he might chew and/or fight but I will take my time and keep trying until I can 100% say I tried everything I could to make Dave happy. The only real time I'd reconsider the decision is if Dave did stress out greatly with being able to hear and see the other goos, I just really believe he won't with how's he has been acting but I am aware it could happen.
That's why I'm meeting with Peggy to see if she has any matches and understand what her policy is on taking goos back if they don't work out but for me just knowing Dave will have some kind of interaction with a fellow goos makes me excited and happy for him. I have set up the new cage, put it next to Daves so I can feel what it's gonna be like and I feel good about it.
Peggy did also mentions she has a few currently that she says won't go with any of her other goos but she is also waiting to neuter them or find neutered males for the females. I asked her if she had any bad experiences with neutering and she said she hadn't which made me feel a lot more confident about it but it's definitely a personal preference and prior experiences thing. I did also contact another centre asking if they had any bad results from it and they said they hadn't either. At the end of the day I suppose you need to be as informed as you can and decide what you think the best thing to do is.
I am also aware of how lucky of a position I am in that my only real thing I am stressing about is Dave.
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Post by misscatafer on Nov 4, 2017 21:23:47 GMT
Clear sparkle Cotton is still very young, she may have 8 years of solitude ahead of her yet, so finding her a friend if she isn't pregnant is something to really think about.
I did a lot of research prior to going through the neutering process. What I learned from the big wide Internet world is that the younger the degu, the more likely complications are to occur, or if the degu is physically unwell anyway. My vet recommended that he would not have carried out the procedure if Toby was less than a year old. I found some horror stories out there, but in all cases the degus were very young, less than 5 months old.
I used a specialist exotic vet in Birmingham. He was brilliant and the surgery all went smoothly. Looking at Toby now you would never know anything had happened to him, and him and Boo mate very regularly lol - he loves to shout about it after!
I think if would be lovely to take Dave along with you tomorrow, I'm really looking forward to seeing how you get on!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 23:32:58 GMT
clearsparkle definitely take note of what bouncy said. It's very out of date and unfortunately not a great source anymore! It's a shame it comes up as a top result on google as it can cause a few cases of confusion, it's too out of date I'm afraid. Cats aren't always that social and aren't pack or colony animals so it's a little different with them! It's sort of the idea that degus aren't really domesticated like your dog for example. They still behave as they would in the wild pretty much. They live in colonies and so will get depressed on their own - whether you as a human can tell or not is a different story! They can hide it well. Of course owners need to be considered, we all have feelings and all have certain conditions of living. Welfare of the animal is very important too. If space and so forth is a very major issue, then rehoming might be a better option for some people. It can be overwhelming having a pet and finding out what you've read or been told is incorrect and/or out of date, that's why we would never judge anyone for rehoming their degu(s). It means that the degus will be happier as they'll get the degu companionship they need, and the owner will not get overwhelmed with needing more cages/spending more time and money and/or feeling they're way out of their depth. They aren't simple creatures, they're pretty complex and so it's understandable. It's hard to get the balance right between importance of the owner and importance of the animal and that's why we offer advice from us all, we all have different backgrounds and slightly different opinions but we are all reading from the same hymn sheet! ☺️ x they are amazing creatures but they ARE hard work and I don't think they should be sold in the pet trade to be honest, as they aren't great for a home environment due to the space they need and so many do end up needing new homes or they remain very unhappy in small cages with bad diets because of places like P@H. Places like this forum are great because you get as much support as we can possibly give and you are never judged for anything as long as you make the choice well informed xx Bar twanging is pretty harmless most of the time. Mine are all happy and they do it from time to time. It could just be they enjoy the feel of it, cold metal rubbing against their teeth. Intros usually work (though they may take time) and usually last. Edit: sorry I've cross posted, my phone didn't show that there was another page!!! Read more: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21849/bar-chewing-lone-degu-alert?page=2&scrollTo=170891#ixzz4xVcFu9CE |
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 4, 2017 23:33:33 GMT
davethedegu Newborn Degu davethedegu Avatar Posts: 12Female Location: England Bar Chewing + Lone Degu Alert 3 hours ago via mobile deguconvert and Emily! like this Quote Edit like Post Options Post by davethedegu on 3 hours ago Hello clearsparkle, I really appreciate your post and concerns about me and people in general not being able to cope because I have definitely thought about that, two giant cages in your bedroom is a turn off for most people, unfortunately for my mother, I'm slightly crazy so I am so excited to add to the family. I am definitely worried he might chew and/or fight but I will take my time and keep trying until I can 100% say I tried everything I could to make Dave happy. The only real time I'd reconsider the decision is if Dave did stress out greatly with being able to hear and see the other goos, I just really believe he won't with how's he has been acting but I am aware it could happen. That's why I'm meeting with Peggy to see if she has any matches and understand what her policy is on taking goos back if they don't work out but for me just knowing Dave will have some kind of interaction with a fellow goos makes me excited and happy for him. I have set up the new cage, put it next to Daves so I can feel what it's gonna be like and I feel good about it. Peggy did also mentions she has a few currently that she says won't go with any of her other goos but she is also waiting to neuter them or find neutered males for the females. I asked her if she had any bad experiences with neutering and she said she hadn't which made me feel a lot more confident about it but it's definitely a personal preference and prior experiences thing. I did also contact another centre asking if they had any bad results from it and they said they hadn't either. At the end of the day I suppose you need to be as informed as you can and decide what you think the best thing to do is. I am also aware of how lucky of a position I am in that my only real thing I am stressing about is Dave. Read more: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21849/bar-chewing-lone-degu-alert?page=2#ixzz4xVbyYHHzEdit: I copied this over rather than move the post itself because there I wondered if Davethedegu might like this information to still be found in her own thread as well. |
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- and unless you want to get fur in your teeth you can't really groom like a degu (could be good for flossing though). Then along with those basics, they love to sleep in piles, which they can't do when they're alone and they can't play fight with you, both of which are important daily social interactions with other goos.
