Two sisters, new degu, new cage, new problems

[deguconvert]

Sounds . . . like they are definitely rather unsettled with things, LOL. You will probably see more of this in the days ahead.

[lucy]

Hi everyone,
sorry for not updating, we've been crazy-busy sorting out our wedding. Now we will finally have more time to focus on our Girls

Since last update, everything calmed down, Apple and Pear are not fighting anymore (except for occasional dispute over their new SAB seedmix, which they seem to love). Also the mesh is not anymore that interesting, they try to bite through sometimes, even when Mike is not on the other side. Funny thing: they moved all the bedding from the mesh - I wonder if they are worried Mike could steal some of it

Mike seems alright, not interested in Girls really, she occupies the bottom shelf most of the time (which is the one without the mesh) at least when we are around. She still seems pretty scared of us. I wonder if someone hurt her in the past maybe, because when we are around, she is alert, when we open the cage, she runs to hide.

We haven't tried to introduce them yet but as everything seems calm now, we will probably try next week. We plan on getting a huge paper box and use it as introduction area. Do you think we should just introduce all three of them or that we can do two one on one sessions first? I am scared, that when it's two on one, it might be too much for Mike, or that it's easier for Girls to attack together.

Have a lovely day!
Lucy

[Deleted]

My goo from a rescue no matter what I do, runs and hides. 😫

You need to really focus on introducing Mike to whoever is the dominant one out of the pair. That's what counts.

[bouncy]

Congratulations!

Regarding the intros, I would personally suggest all together. If you introduce one at a time, particular the submissive of Apple and Pear, you risk upsetting things between your existing pair.

The box is a great idea, as it's neutral. Just be ready with water spray and oven/ski gloves in case you need to intervene.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[misscatafer]

I am in exactly the same situation at the moment with a new girl, my face to faces haven't been good so far and that has been with one at a time, I'm not sure whether to introduce both or one, in my case there is too much aggression for me to consider all three of them currently, but I agree with Bouncy that by introducing just one you risk upsetting the relationship of the pair. Good luck!

[lucy]

Hi everyone!

Misscatafer, I'm sorry to hear that, how long have you been trying? We've had them living side by side for a month now and did substrate switching and sandbath switching. And as we had free afternoon, decided to go for the face to face today.

We started with a sandbath mixed with drop of natural scented oil that we gave to Girls and to Mike seperately (Misscatafer, have you tried that? I would say it makes things easier for them when they smell alike?) we prepared a box with another bowl of sand and started with Mike and Apple (the dominant one) just to see if they go straight to fighting. It seemed okay after half a minute, so we "added" Pear.

Than we sat with winter gloves on our hands, water spray in one, towel in the other and nothing happened Apple started "bitting" Mike in a good way (I don't know if there is a term for it? When they sort of cuddle bitting one another's fur?), sprayed her, got on her back and she didn't protest at all. Pear cuddled her as well (and got sprayed from Apple). No aggression, no fighting, nothing. Then all of them took the sandbath.

We stopped it after about five minutes, so we don't push it too much for the first time and will continue tomorrow.

I was actually shocked how well it went, maybe Mike was so lonely, that she went with the submissive position rather than nothing?

Have a nice evening (or whatever time of the day you have currently )
Lucy

[misscatafer]

Woow that meet sounds so good! Yes ours all share the same sand bath every day in the play pen and we swap toys and substrate regularly, they have been living side by side for about a month but we only recently moved Boo into their cage protected by mesh (about two weeks ago). I have tried about 4 face to faces in the hallway with the Sandbath, all have been terrible, immediate aggression and fighting. Boo (the lone) just will not submit to Bella, our dominant one, as she is a very dominant degu herself we have learnt! I have given up with it for now as it's too risky and upsetting for everyone, both Boo and Bella have suffered bites. my girls are still very young (around 10 months), so I am going to wait for them to reach adulthood then try again.

[bouncy]

That's all very positive!

Never get disheartened with intros. A month is relatively speedy, and one member took about two years to finally get theirs together

[lucy]

Hi everyone,
so we wanted to do another face to face today, and when we went to get Mike, we found out that her tail is degloved. I am devastated. We can't find the tail, there is no blood on the mesh floor, so I assume it is not a result of a over-mesh fight. But I can't identity how on earth that could happen and it freaks me out. We tried to build the cage as safe as possible

Mike seems okay (definitely better than me, really), the tail was dry when we found out and I don't see any drastic amount of blood around the cage. We washed the tail in salted water and dipped it in flour - the fastest first aid I could think of?

Poor Mike, good inch and half of the tail is degloved and I keep wondering what in the cage could cause that

Have a lovely evening
Lucy

[Bexi87]

Have you had a good root round the cage to try and find any spots of blood or maybe a little puddle? I've only known of degloving as a result of the tail being caught.

[lucy]

Hi Bexi87,
thanks for your reply. Yes, we went through all the bedding best we could have (without causing too much stress to Mike, she still isn't used to us). The tail is probably burried somwhere, I suppose she didn't eat it. Where she got the tail caught, I have absolutely no idea :/

Anyway, I must say Mike is really not stressed by this at all, already bit away the end of the tail, looking happy and active. Braver than me

[deguconvert]

They do seem to take a tail degloving in stride. Definitely they suffer less stress over it than we do!

Did you put off the face to face meet as a result of the shocking discovery?

[bouncy]

Hate to say it but, as the cages are adjacent, do have a look in the other one. It's so easy for it to slip through, no matter how careful you are.

[lucy]

Hi,
yes, we didn't do the face to face yesterday. I was worried the tail would be too much distraction for everyone. I'll see how it looks today, Mike is working hard on removing the degloved end.

I looked in Girls cage just briefly yesterday, will do more inspecting today. I guess it must be somewhere, but I don't want to change the bedding now, as we are in the middle of intros.

Jun 18, 2017 20:31:47 GMT misscatafer said:

I have tried about 4 face to faces in the hallway with the Sandbath, all have been terrible, immediate aggression and fighting. Boo (the lone) just will not submit to Bella, our dominant one, as she is a very dominant degu herself we have learnt! I have given up with it for now as it's too risky and upsetting for everyone, both Boo and Bella have suffered bites. my girls are still very young (around 10 months), so I am going to wait for them to reach adulthood then try again.

misscatafer, don't lose hope, they might just need more time. When we got Mike, I was mentally ready for about 6 months of process. I wonder if when Boo is lone for more time, she might be more keen on just getting into the group? Meaning submitting rather than no friends at all? Or does it not work that way? Because we've been told Mike was VERY dominant, hurting other degus when we got her. And she submitted at the first meet without any fight...

Have a lovely day
Lucy

[misscatafer]

Boo has been on her own for at least 3 years, I think she has lost a lot of social skills in that time with other degus, only interacting with humans. She is also a lot older than the others, so I think she naturally feels she should be the leader. She is always friendly to them at the bars, but obviously when Bella has tried to dominate her, she has defended her position as perceived 'top goo'. She seems to enjoy sitting with them despite them just being nasty to her all day long, and is showing no signs of loneliness or depression. Now they are in the same cage, she has been a lot happier and probably feels part of the group despite having no actual contact. She will warble away to them throughout the day and they do all rest together at the mesh, which is something I suppose! I'm hoping the longer they share a cage and playpen the girls will eventually come round and accept her as part of the group, but I think right now hormones are too high for them to consider that.

Really sorry to hear about Mike's tail, I'm not experienced enough to give much advice or suggestions on the subject. I considered whether she could have removed it herself after the meet yesterday, maybe she felt scared/stressed/upset, degus are capable of self harm and in flight or fight mode can rid themselves of the tail...Maybe she chewed it off which is why there is not loads of blood in the cage and why you can't find it, maybe she did eat it? Or maybe it did get injured in the meet yesterday so she made the decision to get rid of it? From the meets I did, I was finding injuries days afterwards which weren't apparent at the time, they can happen so fast and they show no sign of being harmed or in pain. Either way, although shocking for us, it is quite a normal process for degus, so I'm sure she is not suffering now. The important thing is that your meet was positive, so you are doing everything right and it sounds like you will have all three together soon!

[lucy]

Hi!

misscatafer, I think it's a good sign, that they interact over the mesh (our girls just kept shouting and climbing it and then lost interest in that kind of interaction)! I think it's good decision to not push it and just let them get along in the shared, even divided, space. Maybe they need more time spent together first

Update on our progress, we had intro last night, tonight for more than 30 minutes. We still haven't had any fight but more aggression is showing.

Mike seems really friendly to Girls and she kept coming for cuddles. Pear decided to take over the leadership, so instead of returning cuddles, she was just mounting her all the time. To the point, where Mike got annoyed and squeaked at her every time she was overdoing it. But she didn't try to mount anyone. It seemed to me like "C'mon! I get you want to be the leader but get off me, I just want to cuddle!" Apple was more interested in how to get out of the box rather than making friends. Until when Mike got really annoyed, squeaked at both of them and they froze with faces like "What just happened?" And then when we took Girls out of the box, she started shouting at us and didn't stop until we've moved her back to the cage. I wonder if it was because she wanted to stay with them. I like to believe that

Btw. the tail is healing great, and we found the rest - it was buried in Mike's bedding. Still don't know how it happened, but it wasn't Girls.

So far so good
Have a lovely evening
Lucy

[misscatafer]

That is great! I bet you can't wait til they are all together the aggression with my lot has been awful the past few days, constant squeaking and obsession, might be the heat winding them up more than usual. I got a nasty bite from Bella as well two nights ago, my fingers were too close to their section of the cage as I was stroking Boo, and Bella was trying to get to Boo from underneath and well, you can imagine the rest! It upset me more that she was intending to bite Boo as hard as she bit me, she dented my nail and the finger was just pouring blood. I would hate to think if anything happened and they accidentally got to her, she probably would be completely savaged

[zenaida]

Perhaps the tail just got caught on something and she took it with her to the nest? A little while back Nico accidentally degloved one of our girls. He totally panicked and didn't know what to do, so he threw the tail back into the cage (maybe hoping she would put it back on?). I was coming home from work at the time, when I got here and asked him where it was, it wasn't there anymore. Someone in the cage had pulled it into a more secluded spot. I suspect they do this so predators don't find the loose bit and start looking for the injured animal it came from.

Glad to hear you had a successful meeting!

[Bexi87]

Jun 23, 2017 11:26:31 GMT zenaida said:

He totally panicked and didn't know what to do, so he threw the tail back into the cage (maybe hoping she would put it back on?).

Poor Nico. I think he has probably aged about 20 years since the girls came home

[lucy]

Hi everyone!

Misscatafer, hope your finger is alright now!!

Zenaida, I can totaly relate to that "shock-panic-please put it back on" feeling, as Pear also has degloved tail and it was my fault. It got caught in a door of a cage, when I was closing it. Fragment of a second. I cried, I was angry at myself and I promised to pay special attention to tails, so it never happens again. Well...

The introductions - long story short: I believe we got super lucky. Girls are officialy living together since Sunday and they are loving it, they cuddle all the time. We didn't have a single real fight in the process, I can't believe it. Honestly, it seems like they don't care, who is the alpha. Even with the food bowl - Who comes first has the right to eat first (and defends that right).

Big thank you to everyone for your help! And support! I am so happy, any free minute I just sít by the cage and watch them (and call things like "Look! Look! The are sleeping together!" at my boyfriend)

Thank you!
Have a lovely evening.
Lucy