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Post by deguconvert on May 30, 2017 16:57:16 GMT
If a degu has been kept alone for a long time, or since fairly young as a result of people badly interpreting degu behaviors, she may not be overly sure what to do with another degu. She may not know just how good it is to be with other degus. Don't worry about this though, as she is well able to adjust and learn. You just need to take things slowly with LOTS of repetition. Do short meets, but do them say twice a day. Maybe not twice daily right now, but work up to it. Think in the manner of months for intros not weeks, that way you won't feel like you need to move things faster. You could face daily meets for several months, and then one day things click between them. Or things could click sooner. Give her time to learn, give the other girls time to accept, and don't let yourself freak out. There will likely be unexpected events, because these are degus we are dealing with and they NEVER go by the book, but it will all work out.
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Post by misscatafer on May 30, 2017 19:16:40 GMT
Okay I did a meet with Bella and Boo, it was a completely different ball game to Hermione's meet. It went on for a good 30 minutes I think. It was mainly just trying to sniff /mount each other and weeing on each other...Boo constantly warbling and Bella teeth chattering. Every time Bella ran out of Boos eyesight or sat by me she would let out a 'trill' according to degutopia, I have never heard that noise before... Not sure what it means. But they did fight, and the fights were more violent than Hermione... But I only had to intervene once whereas Hermione went straight for the ball. I noticed a big lump of fur on the floor and Boo has been bitten on the cheek. I wrapped her up and cleaned it with warm water as best I could.. So upset for her. I have removed her Sand bath now and will wait for the wound to completely heal before trying again with Bella.
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Post by misscatafer on May 30, 2017 19:17:36 GMT
Here is the best pic I could get of the wound.
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Post by goolover on May 30, 2017 19:38:40 GMT
Did you had some salt to the warm water? What a shame, such vicious little things!
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Post by misscatafer on May 30, 2017 20:21:54 GMT
I know it happened when they clashed together I think. Yes... Tbh she wasn't letting me touch it really at all. She is still warbling at Bella bless her even after getting bitten. It wasn't deep... Think most of the blood is where the fur was pulled out. I hope she isn't in pain. She is eating and drinking normally and is still letting me stroke her at least.
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Post by deguconvert on May 30, 2017 21:26:10 GMT
I know that has possibly caused you to feel guilty and to second guess yourself, but don't. That really isn't too horrible a meet when you come down to it. I think it went well, and you yourself did amazing to hold back and not just react. You're doing great!
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Post by misscatafer on May 30, 2017 22:00:24 GMT
Thank you for all the continued support and reassurance, really really appreciate it! This bite.... Is it common during intros for this to happen? Reflecting back, I think I let it go on too long, Bella was probably getting tired and decided to play dirty in an attempt to gain dominance as Boo was holding her own.
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Post by deguconvert on May 31, 2017 5:19:25 GMT
Bites are definitely not uncommon, so yeah, most introductory efforts will have some bites in them over the span of time. Some more than others. They are fast little "charmers" and you can't help but wonder when the teeth came out and how did you miss it. Any of us that have scaled the ragged rocks of introductions and dominance fighting will have struggled with the wild dance of emotions. The biggest help is to post, rant, ask, lament, and know that you are being heard, understood, and supported. When you get to the end, you will be so glad for all the time and effort, tears and frustrations you have withstood to accomplish it, and we are here to help you get there as best we can.
You are likely right about the reason things ended as they did. Means you know your girls and you are learning to read their indications, which is great. That will come in very handy!! Not just for this situation, but for many others as well. You're doing well!!
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Post by misscatafer on May 31, 2017 18:16:44 GMT
I think the way it is going now I will be harassing you all for months unfortunately! Got little Boo out today and did a check up on her, she has another wound on her back and a teeny tiny scab on her ear which I didn't notice. All wounds look clean... Can't believe how quickly damage can happen, it's really put me off putting her with Bella again as I'm putting her in so much danger and stress. Just sat with her in the playpen now, she's teeth chattering at times, maybe she's in pain, or annoyed that she can smell them.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 1, 2017 0:45:54 GMT
Very seldom do introductions go without things like this, and even rarer do they move forward quickly. Three months would be quick, six months - 18 months within the realm of normal. Most people are either successful by 18 months or have left the effort and tried something else. You don't have to worry about asking for help or posting about introductions for months, we are up for it. I personally went through 8 months of introduction, 5 of which were HORRIBLE, and the people on the forum were wonderful with me. I posted about everything. LOL! I consider it gratitude to offer the same kindnesses as I received back then.
If you feel that you would like to let it go for a bit and consider the process again at a later date, that is fine too. Just know that she will be very glad to be part of a group once that happens, and the other girls will be glad to have her once they accept her. You are not afflicting her by allowing for the intros and monitoring them, you are helping her. These are feisty little bodies, and they feel their emotions powerfully, but they also recover well. This lays in your hands, we will help and encourage all we can, and we will understand if this just feels terribly stressful and more than you can face.
Edit: I think I need to say that most introductions are successful before the 18 month mark, even before the 12 month mark. So don't panic thinking you have a year and a half ahead of you. You very likely do not. Likely much shorter. More like mine of eight months.
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Post by misscatafer on Jun 1, 2017 22:43:21 GMT
Yes. I think it was a bit of an over estimate thinking I'd have them all together by July lol!
Today when I got home from work the girls were super excited to see me (I had been out for 14 hours, d**n these long days!) and Bella actually let me give her some fuss. She has a bite wound too on her back... Gah! I'm sure Hermione has been looking after her though.
Also, I noticed tonight that Boo has a significant chip to to her front tooth which wasn't there before, her front teeth now look sort of like a V shape... Would this have been caused by the fight? Is it serious or painful? She doesn't seem in pain and is chewing wooden sticks as I type... Don't understand how that would have happened though? Feel like a bad degu mummy with all these injuries!!
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 2, 2017 10:59:55 GMT
Not sure about the tooth, it won't be causing any pain though. Check it again tomorrow and it should be straightened out.
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Post by misscatafer on Jun 2, 2017 12:38:45 GMT
That's good that it wouldn't be painful. Hopefully it was just an over enthusiastic chomp somewhere (hopefully not on Bella). All her wounds are healing nicely and she is back to her usual self today.
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Post by misscatafer on Jun 4, 2017 16:15:31 GMT
Busy degu day today! We have put Boo in the cage separated with mesh. I was getting fed up of having the stupid thickets cage in the middle of the room, there was so much mess every day. Also, upon realising that introductions are going to take a lot longer than expected, I wanted Boo to have a more permanent, nicer living area. She has lost two inches of floor space, but now has more shelving so actually I think she has more room than before. I know it is not ideal to have her in the top, but we had to take into consideration that we have plastic shelving which could be chewed through! We just bought a reel of mesh from pound land and attached with wire. We have covered the top plastic shelving where Boo is with mesh too so if she does discover the plastic, she isn't going to get through. I'm still a bit nervous that somehow they will find a way to each other, but we are going to be vigilant tonight and rectify any gaps they find. Boo is a different degu since being in the big cage! I have never seen so much movement in her, she is using the wheel, jumping and hopping around like there's no tomorrow! The girls do not seem impressed at all with their new cage mate and reduced space. The hemp flooring is getting an absolute battering from both sides in their attempts to get to each other too... Surely after a few days they will all get used to the new living arrangement though.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 5, 2017 16:07:59 GMT
I am really pleased to see her in there, and I think it should be helpful for introductions. Well done, Misscatafer!! SO glad that Boo is all lit up from being in the new space. Clearly it has done her good!!
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Post by misscatafer on Jun 5, 2017 17:16:47 GMT
The divider has stayed intact! They have spent a large proportion of the day all snuggled up together against the mesh, although Bella is still teeth chattering and forbidding Hermione from interacting. Boo is also still doing a lot of sitting with her back to them.. Which I still think is antagonistic, I suppose it could be worse though! Boo has taken it upon herself to do some interior design and is making swift work of chewing the wooden panels we added to the cage when we first got it, I think she finds it a bit gloomy in there and maybe she liked being so exposed before?
I'm so so pleased I have them all in one cage together, will probably resume face to faces once Bella calms down a bit.
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 6, 2017 9:36:40 GMT
Glad this is working out
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 6, 2017 15:28:23 GMT
How are things going today? Any changes in their interactions through the divide?
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Post by misscatafer on Jun 6, 2017 16:15:28 GMT
Today I have been at work but Rob reports Bella has been squealing a lot at both Hermione and Boo...so no change really. Since coming back the behaviours all look the same. The only positive thing is they are continuing to nap on the upper level with Boo now, something we only briefly glimpsed before when she first arrived. Boo is still making steady progress on her window, I wish she'd hurry up and get it how she envisions as it makes such a racket when she's chewing away! Going to try face to faces again once Bella reduces the aggression.
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Post by misscatafer on Jun 7, 2017 22:20:05 GMT
So today I had a day off at home so have had a good spectacle into the interactions between the girls, it is looking really positive! The girls really do seem to be accepting Boo now she is in the cage, the aggression is reducing... Still a little bit of teeth chattering... But only when I am near the cage, so maybe I am being chattered at for interfering lol? Today the wooden hanging toys at the bottom of the cage have been left untouched... They have spent the whole day interacting with Boo. They have majorly just been sitting with her and resting up against the mesh, Hermione has often just clung to the mesh for dear life it seems but Bella has just lay against it quite relaxed. Boo has also stopped the back turning thing, and has been facing them either on her perch or against the mesh.
Interestingly when it was Boos time in the play pen, Bella just constantly sat up against the mesh making a long drawn out whistle, as if calling out for her. They also seem to be doing a lot of things in sync, such as all using the wheels together, foraging together and resting together by the mesh. I have high hopes!
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