Food Rules According to Moi!

[smlmamlgirl]

1) degus have to eat a combo of guinea pig and chinchilla food. Read the label- alot of them have cane molasses in them (bad bad bad). Don't bother buying "degu" food- same stuff as I just mentioned, but it costs more.

2) their diet needs to be dominated by greens, but the dominance should be built to a gradual tolerance over time or your degus will get the trots. My twelve share about 3 cup of greens every night and are fine, sleek and have healthy coats.

3) anything in the onion family will kill them and most other small veggie mammals.

4) chlorophyll juice (unsweetened) and chinchilla vitamines are great to add to water for a boost from time to time.

5) variety is the spice of life: you needs multiple vitamines and minerals from different veggies, so do they. Variety and change also keep them eating and not becoming bored.

6) variety of hay. Mine get grass hay, timothy hay, meadow grass, alfalfa and oat hay on VERY special occasions. Again, different nutrients in each and keeps them interested.

7) vitamine C. Like their cousins the chinchilla and the guinea pig, degus are vitamine C deficient. Carrots should be given 2-4 times a week depending on your animals' tolerance to sugar. You can also dissolve an ester-C tablet (the fizzy stuff) in their water.

8) Building up a MILD tolerance to sugar is not a bad thing for your degus as long as you start the training young. From time to time I will give mine melon ( not super ripe) or half a blueberry because both are low in sugar and good for all diabetics, human or animal.

9) NutriBlocks! Other known as rat blocks or rodent blocks. They are about 3/4 of an inch long in a squicshed tubular shape. The advantage to these are that EVERY BITE has all the nutrients your degu needs for days, as opposed to being to pick and choose what they like and don't like. Now these are slightly higher in carbs, so I give 2 to each animal in place of pellets on those days. Usually 3X's a week.

10) seeds. NO SEEDS NO GRAINS IN RAW/WHOLE FORM. In all small mammals they can cause gastr blocks and diarrhea. The only exception I would make for degus is the odd nut and sunflower seeds- and watch them after the fact to see how they do.

11) calcium. Alot of pet stores advocate small amounts of bread soaked in milk.....idiots! Milk to a vegan animal? that can't tolerate simple carbohydrates? Sheesh. A cuttle bone is one solution, especially because they like to chew. Also, dandelion greens, kale and parsley are very high in calcium. But beware too much calcium or it will form bladder stones and cause blocks.

12) herbs. If you can get your degus to eat herbs (I can't, but some can) do your research on what's okay and what's not. Parsley, dill and mint are very good for appetite. And oregano is an immune builder.

13)greens of any kind. No matter where they come from, even if it's your garden wash them! More vegetarian animals die of diseases related to pollution or pesticides than by any other manner. Wash them AND dry them.

14) If they do get sick from unwashed veggies or a sudden diet change and they get diarrhea use small amounts of quick oats as a binding agent (for the shortest period of time you can because of the carbs). No more than one tsp for the animal 2x's a day (the same measurement as what they should be getting in pellets), and it usually works prety quickly.

15) rehydration. one cheap, effective low sugar fluid should they have very bad diarrhea (it doesn't take long for such a small animal to become dehydrated) is this:

1 litre warm water
8 tsp molasses
1 tsp salt

Pedialyte and gatorade have to much sugar. This is tolerable to degaus and other animals that don't handle sugar well. If you have to force feed it remember: animal at 45 degrees, syringe to the side of the mouth, and in small increments with your animal's ability to swallow.

Okay, there. Those are the big ones, although I'm sure I've forgatten a half million others that can be added to now in this thread. Anyone have stuff to add?

[rosberry]

I add the stuff to their water and give them hay and a chin/guinea mix. But they refuse to eat anything fresh. I keep giving them things like greens, carrots etc and they don't even touch it. Plus I cannot find chin pellets made without cane molasses and they refuse to eat the guinea pig pellets without cane molasses. They seem healthy and have nice coats. Any suggestions?

[diet otaku]

D: those are the big ones?! well that leaves me with lots of questions.

1. why guinea pig food AND chinchilla food? what's the difference?
2. what if i can't find pellets that don't have cane molasses in them? it's like the 8th ingredient, plus the degus don't eat much of them anyway, AND i'm sort of on a budget. i can't really afford $10 for a 1/2lb bag of gourmet degu food or whatever.
3. which veggies are safe and which aren't? i keep hearing conflicting info on whether degus can have carrots, and i've heard corn is bad as well as any kind of potato. and it would seem like lettuce, tomato and celery would be too watery and would give them the runs. i give them 4 vitamin crunchers each every other day or so, would that suffice as a vitamin supplement?
4. rose hips are also supposedly high in vitamin C... if i'm not comfortable giving them carrots, will these do?
5. where do i get nutriblocks and how much are they?
6. i don't give my degus sunflower seeds (because it's so hard to find unsalted ones) but i DO give them the pumpkin seeds from healthy toppings... i also give them one raw peanut in the shell each, once a week. are these acceptable or am i killing my degus?
7. if i just put a cuttle bone in the cage, how do i know whether they are getting to much calcium or not? right now they're getting it from this nifty edible bowl that i put their vitamin crunchers in. they really seem to like it, but have not immediately demolished it like they did the mineral ice cream cone.

[smlmamlgirl]

Rosberry.....to be honest, my suggestion would be tough love. For one or two days give them a quarter of their hay, no pellets and basic greens. Basic greens meaning grass, dandelions, clover.....maybe tease them with rose petals. I've discovered that all you need is a starting point- all you need to do is get them to try and then eat one green reliably and then you can branch out into similar greens and then you've got it made. You might worry but depriving them of pellets is unhealthy, but remember that they are diabetic animals. No carbs is no problems with them. Pet grass is another good place to start; you know, the kits you can buy at the pet store, filled with seeds that you can grow on your own.

Greens are important for two reasons:
1) Greens are protectors against infection for all vegetarian animals.
2) It insures that their pancreas is not being over-taxed (which would shorten their lifespan).

It is stronly recommended by Degu experts (more expert than me) that they have sweet potato or carrot (sweet potato especially) about three times a week. I haven't met a Degu that doesn't like it. At worst you can start by trying them there. If they don't have a choice of pellets and they run out of hay, and they have lots of water just in case, they may be more inclined to try the greens.

Good luck!

[smlmamlgirl]

Diet Otaku... I will answer in order you asked your questions:
1) Guinea Pigfood and chin food have different nutritional components, and seeing as degus are literally half way between the two species the current thought is that half of each food (but with no sugar- not even cane molasses sugar) best serves their dietary needs.

2)gourmet degu food is crap- don't buy it. <rueful smile> (everyone has an opinion!) they're either charging you for mixing it all together, or they're adding a bunch of stuff you then have to pick out. Your best bet is to go someplace you can buy bulk (that's where you get the nutriblocks from too) And if you can't find chin food without sugar, stick with g.p. pellets and add a vitamine C component to their diet.

3)Okay, this is what my guys eat: regular grass, pet grass, dandelion leaves, clover, rose petals, cauliflower, broccoli, kale, ROMANE LETTUCE (never, ever IceBerg) mesclun mix, baby spring greens, they adore celery, carrots, sweet potato, spinach, cucumber, beet greens, carrot greens, and zuchini.

Don't EVER give your Degus corn, whole grains (other than oatmeal), anything acid (tomatoes), anything spicy (peppers), any citrus (they are allergic), regular potatoes, rice, root vegetables other than carrots or sweet potato (ie beets, acidic veggies, spicy veggies, and corn most of all are dangerous. Corn not only has high sugar content but is also a starch and causes leeky-gut syndrome which causes them to develop allergies.

4) Yes. Problem is, you usually can't get them all year.

5) NutriBlocks, also known as RatBlocks or RodentBlocks are cheapest bought in bulk, in a place like Bosley's (Canada). There must be an equivalent where you are.

6) There is no way you are killing your Degus, your questions are too diligent! As for pumpkin seeds, I have heard in some places, that pumpkin seeds are acceptable for Degus. The best thing is to watch your animal's stools and to watch them for lethargy after the fact. I WOULD stop giving them peanuts - they are VERY high in fat, which, in Degus will surround and ultimately strangle the liver. There are better ways for them to get the oils for their skins and coats... eating Primrose oil mixed in with their pellets for instance. My guys loved it and it stopped all the scratching.

7) Some Degus love cuddle bones... and others don't. One easy way to tell if they're getting enough calcium is to give them kale and dandelion greens which are very very high in calcium.

You have edible bowls where you are? How cool is that...!? Hope I was of some help. My guys are healthy and active. And I was hired a while back to heal animals dietarily. So I needed to know my stuff. I also love research - so what I don't know, I have fun looking up. But really, there's no alphabet soup behind my name, so while I've studied, and have practical experience, I am not an expert. You know your animals, go with your gut.

[diet otaku]

i'm really surprised to see the recommendation of sweet potato! there was a thread earlier on the safety of sweet potato and most agreed that it would be bad because it is not only a starch (potato) but also loaded with sugar (hence why it tastes sweet). is this true?

also, the degus really love the shell on the peanuts... even after they have gotten the nut out, they will continue to munch on the shell, which i felt was probably good for them because it is so fibrous. i'm wondering if they will still be interested in the shell if i take the peanut out. i could also just cut it down to half a peanut once a week... i usually just give it to them as a treat after i clean their cage, so they're not as stressed. where does one find primrose oil?

[Sunshinemeg]

I have to agree with the sweet potato risk. I know from experience that this is a high risk food for any degu. Gizmo, my first degu died from eating it, and the vet confirmed this. I really dont recommend offering it as a treat. I totally banned it from Gromit after I lost Gizmo.

I also plan on still feeding peanuts as occasional treats, as they simply love them! Although Dougal isnt as bright, and eats the shell first, and usually looses the peanut to Dillan in to process!

But aside from that, thanks for the thread smlmamlgirl, good to find people willing to produce info like that for others benefit!

meg ;D

[smlmamlgirl]

So much info and so little proof- it all comes down to your own gut instincts and your own eperiences. here are a few places where I researched this info so one and all can decide for themselves. These quotes are taken from sites that I trust.

"Feeding: The basis of a good degu diet is a combination of high quality chinchilla or guinea pig pellets, and rodent blocks. Grass hay (such as timothy hay) should be available all the time (you can get small hay racks to make this easier), and a small amount of alfalfa hay can also be offered. A variety of fresh vegetables can be given, especially sweet potato (peeled, uncooked), carrots, broccoli, leafy greens, green beans, and dandelion leaves (must be pesticide-free). " www.exoticpets.about.com

"It is important to be careful of what you give your degu's. A degu will eat just about anything it is given. Unlike North American rodents and guinea pigs degus lack the ability to properly digest sugar. This is not the result of a failed organ but instead an evolutionary thing. In the part of Chile that degus are located there really isn't very much in the way of fruit, very much like in the prairie's. As a result of this, degus have evolved a body that cannot digest sugar simply because it is not the kind of thing that they can get in the wild. Never Give your degu's anything with sugar! When a degu eats anything with sugar in it and this includes natural sources such as fruit they suffer the same effects as diabetic people do without insulin. Logically you cannot give them insulin so obviously it is best to simply avoid the sugar. The kind of food that is okay to give a degu is food that is meant for the kind of animal that they are. They do like small animal food but the corn and sunflower seeds in it are not good for them.

Sunflower seeds have to much oil and fat. Corn has too much oil. Carrots are O.K. - in a small quantity like a one inch cube per day per degu. Carrots also have a lot of sugar. That is why the yellow vegetable of choice should be Sweet potato (yam is similar but lower in vitamins)." www.geocities.com

"Degus should have a yellow vegetable (sweet potato), a green vegetable (dandelion is loved by them but beware of pesticides), but any very green leaf vegetable, preferably not from the cabbage family is O.K. Don't cook the sweet potatoes , give them to them raw." www.geocities.com

"Fresh dandelion leaves and root vegetables, such as carrots, sweet potato, swede and parsnip, can be offered every other day. High fat foods like peanuts, sunflower seeds and food high in sugar like fruits and carbohydrates are bad for degus. For this reason, chinchilla pellets containing molasses should be avoided." www.rspca-westhatch.co.uk/Degu.htm

Anyhoo...we all pick and choose our info and how we use it- there are other websites- figured I shouldn't log a novel. Just so you know I don't spout info without substance you know, lots of people do and I thought I might lead you down some of the paths I followed on the net for the choices I made with my pets.

Oh, and evening primrose oil can be bought from a healthfood store
Jaima

[diet otaku]

well this is interesting:
"Sweet potatoes contain an enzyme that converts most of its starches into sugars as the potato matures. This sweetness continues to increase during storage and when they are cooked."
www.foodreference.com/html/fsweetpotatoes.html

also:
"With the exception of beets, carrots contain more sugar than any other vegetable"
www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/foods_view/1,1523,14,00.html

so it looks like BOTH are bad. broccoli, i would imagine, would be good, because in humans broccoli burns more calories during digestion than it has in it. my dad is a diabetic and he would often eat broccoli as a snack.

if we're going for a prairie-like environment, it would make sense that most if not all of the degu's diet should be of the dry roughage variety - hay, grass, weeds, roots and tubers. and speaking of which, i need to go refill my degus' hay rack.

[smlmamlgirl]

Sigh. I do wish the information could be straightforward and not be contradicted itself six ways from Sunday, but then I suppose that our brains would become irrelevant and all we would say was "uhhhh"!I can give you an important tell from the (my) pet perspective though:if I offer a raisin, if I offer half a blueberry they sniff it and wander away disinterestedly after giving me a dirty look. But with carrot and sweet potato in small pieces (one per animal, not in the bowl) they are very happy and show no signs, even after all this time of diabetes (excessive drinking and unrination, general tattiness of coat, flat ears and the symptoms go on...)

It's good to go with your gut about your pets- you know them better than anyone, even a vet, despite what the vet might say. You instictively know what they will and will not be able to handle through a million tiny bits of data you don't even know you're absorbing on the sub-conscious level: everything from pupil dialation to the pheremones they put out.

It's interesting that you focus on the fiber content of the peanut shell, I never would have thought of it that way...all my books say "the occasional nut in a shell to help them grind their teeth down". How long has your counrty had degus? Ours has had them less than 100 years and they all stem from an original 10 brought to N. America for scientists to do experimentation on....so anyone with a knowledge of degus here and in the U.S. (professional) is unusual. For instance, here in Victoria and area it is killer to find a vet that will even look at one because they admit that they just don't know about them. Maybe that is why some of our info is so contradictory- 100 years isn't very long.

[diet otaku]

yeah, i don't think degus have been around very long in the US. i only found out about them less than a year ago - someone else on a my little pony forum i visit has a pair.

i don't know how well the peanut shell wears down their teeth, mostly because mine chew through it so quickly! but they're really having a ball with the mineral bowl, and i also have these things called cholla chews which are made of sun-dried cactus. last night they kept picking up the bowl and the cholla chew and just dragging them all over the cage. it was especially hilarious watching them with the bowl, because it's so big. rumble could barely get it off the ground without getting on his hind feet. XD

[Hanlou]

Hi.

I want to say thanks too - especially for the list of veggies etc.

I don't have degus yet - but I want them in the future which is why I'm doing all the research now.

I've been trawling through a hundered different sites, and every one of them says something different about what to feed and what not to feed. I find it hideously confusing, personally. Another Uk based degu site says sweet potato is fine and carrots are too.... then you read other stuff that says not.... I feel it's really hard to know what's right and what's not.

In the end, I suppose we do the research and then we make the decisions.

I do have a question though: Why would you need to give additional vitamin C if you are feeding them guinea pig pellets?? I used to have a guinea pig - they have to have additional vitmain c as they can get scurvy otherwise. So if you're giving them guinea pig food, aren't you giving them vitamin c anyway - as a good quality guinea pig food should contain a substantial amount of vitamin c? I'm not criticising, just curious!!

Thanks for the post.

[diet otaku]

hanlou - i've found it best to just trust my instincts, after doing the reading. it just doesn't make sense to me that sweet potatoes would be safe for degus and all other "sweet" foods would not. if i find there's too much contradictory information on a food, i just avoid the food. rarely have i seen a food that some say is bad and others say is ESSENTIAL... it's always with foods that would just be a bonus. so i just skip them and supplement the degus' diet in other ways (like the vitamin crunchers).

[smlmamlgirl]

Hi Hanlou,

Actually, guinea pigs are also supposed to have a vegetable supplement of vitamin C or the dissolveable stuff in water. For some reason chinchillas, degus and G.P.s (all immediate cousins and from the same general areas in Chile) are vitamin C deficient as you said. As I understand it a similar comparison can be made in humans with vitamin D...the only real place you can get and FULLY absorb it is in the sun, although you CAN take pills that you will mostly excrete in your urine. Once you tabletize a vitamin that was at some point naturally found in our diet it becomes less effective OR less absorbable. So consider the G.P. food to have the equivalent of vitamin pills crunched in with their pellets. The vegeteable form in not only fibrous (which is good), has other trace minerals and nutrients, but also a more absorbable form of vitamin C. There is also the fact that greens are free food to diabetics and this helps keep them full and fed with as few carbs necessary (1 tsp of pellets per animal per day isn't a whole lot!) But should you disagree with my research and feel that sw. potato and carrott, even on occasion, are too great a risk, a great source for vitamin C is rose petals (privately grown, and rose hips- a whole different option with none of the debatable angles <wink>.

I have four babies for sale- beautiful healthy babies (that eat sweet potato and show no signs of active diabetes....course I am very careful at counting calories and substituting carbs on those days!!!) Are you interested in 3 girls and 1 boy- all litter mates? Course they are in Canada!!!!!!!!! Hope I helped?

[Hanlou]

Thanks. It's all very interesting!!

I'm kind of 'absorbing degu info.' like a huge sponge atm!! lol.

Actually, thinking about it, I should've known all that anyway, because as a precautionary measure I did used to give my GP's a quarter of a soluble vitamin c tablet in their water. They had plenty of veggies too, though. Bless them, every time they heard anyone chopping anything on the chopping board they used to squeak and squeak with excitement - they were so used to getting their carrots etc!! ;D

Ooohh, tempting, but I think Canada is a little bit too far.... besides, I can't have any degus just yet. I may even have to wait until I move out to get some. But never mind. I can keep learning and looking at everyone else's pics. I do have my 8 ratties to look after too!