Possible Runt?

[saggy]

I just got three new degus who are six and a half weeks old and two of them already let me pick them up and stroke them and have had no problems but the smaller one is very nervous in comparison to the other two and just hides and I think she has a few problems with joining the other two sometimes and automatically lets them in front - off the wheel straight away if one even looks to want to go on apart from her obvious insecurites regarding food as hides everything straight away. However, I have always been really good at taming the untamable animals of my friends and family and after a lot of one on one type of work she did finally step onto my hand today. Istarted off by just giving the other two food/treats further up the cage and holding it out for her down the bottom away from the other two (involved an act of contortion lol) She likes it when the house is more calm with low lighting and my four year old is in bed and visitors gone so she comes out at this time and potters about and uses the wheel. We both stay up later than the other two degus and my daughter so I've been using this time to kind of work with her and try and talk from across the room etc - I try and copy her squeaks and she responds everytime and seems to really like it although only knows what I am saying in degu land lol! And then trying to approach her after a night or two of doing that as it's less stressy with no one else around which is definately paying off now and seems to have decided to be okay with me and will now venture round the cage if only me in the room and actually comes to front of the cage to squeak at me for my attention. However, she really is small - half the size of the other two and then I suddenly remembered that the few times I went around my aunties where the mother is - there was always a small one on her own far away from all the rest of the family and babies at the top of a massive cage who would dart behind the house up there whenever anyone came into the room so begginning to think that it now makes sense that she was possibly the runt of the litter and maybe not being looked after properly because of it. Or possibly she's just a bit loopy lol! Anyway either way, I'm assuming that she probably suffered nutritionally so was just wondering if there is anything specific I can give to her to help her catch up or replace some kind of vitamin she might be low in or might not have had enough of. I'm assuming too late for most as can't replace milk from mum now but do you have any suggestions of super growth super nutrition treats I can give to just her lol. I'm thinking maybe it would be okay to give her things that are good nutritionally but normally classed as too fatty to give too often as she needs some fat on her. Maybe there is nothing but thought I would check with you wonderfully wise and helpful people as I don't have a clue about degus lol

[saggy]

She also does not drink enough water - anything I can do about that?

[moletteuk]

I think the main thing with the food is to make sure she is getting her fair share, are they all eating from separate bowls? Does she graze on the hay and forage? I think you could give her a few extra oil seeds, but apart from that I would just keep an eye that she is getting a good spread of everything.

The only think you can do for the water is put the bottle somewhere that she feels safe pausing to drink, make sure there is cover nearby, maybe move it to a darker corner.

[saggy]

Hi there,

Yes, there are three food bowls, each on a different level and one tucked into the corner near where she hides behind the wheel so I don't think there's a problem with the normal pellet stuff and haven't seen any arguing at all over that - she tends to come out and nibbles away at the dandelion and other stuff when they are having a snooze. When I've been given them other stuff, I've been sneakily putting some for her in the dark space under the log and she just goes there automatically now and they haven't twigged on yet lol! I've also been diving her a few extras in the evening when they have gone to bed and too soundo to realise. I shall just keep doing that although wont always have the time to watch like I have been as away from work and nursery etc at the mo but I will use that time in the evening to make sure she gets extra Moving the water bottle is a great idea - that might be the problem and hadn't thought about that.

Sorry again for all the questions so paranoid about doing it right and you are so helpful lol!

[saddlers]

We also have an underweight/small degu who I think may have been the runt. We have also tried to fatten her up, but like the others when she is fill she will just start to bury it. We have just learned to accept that she will always be a smaller degu. She peaked at 200g and normally hovers around 180g. She is still a feisty little thing and is happy to put the others in their place if they push their luck. I just make sure she has plenty of what she likes in terms of food. We have a food bowl for each degu and a couple of water bottles per cage, so their should never be posession issues.

Some degus are also a bit more solitary, they will get with the group for a groom now and again, and the occasional cuddle, but may not sleep with the pack, and tend to do their own thing.

[jos]

One of my degus was much smaller than the other two when I first got them aged eight weeks, I was told she was extremely shy and that I'd never be able to handle her. When I got her home she seemed to undergo a personality reboot, she is by far the boldest now, and what she lacks in bulk she makes up for in brains and attitude! She is still the smallest now, and very lean, aged 14 months, around 180-190g but she eats a lot and makes sure she is always the first in the queue for treats. If I adjust the cage furniture, the other two flee for the hills whereas she will come running full tilt towards me to check what I'm up to. I do sometimes worry about her being too thin but I know she has a good appetite, and drinks plenty, I think she burns all her calories with wheel running, she's quite a bit more active than the other two and although she likes to interact and sleep with her sisters, she's a lot less needy with them but more friendly to me. I guess if you are reassured she is not being bullied off her food (or having it stolen out of her mouth, mine used to do this a lot when they were babies but not now), she can still be happy and healthy even if she is little. It might be possible to give her an extra nut every so often (would still have to be careful not to give too many) but I've found nuts are seen as the most valuable treat by my goos and they pay close attention to who has one, you wouldn't want her to be picked on if she was seen to be singled out for extra goodies, unless you could do this outside the cage away from the others.

[saggy]

THanks guys, that's reassuring actually. I was just worried she still might die or something as you read how not all pups make it and I wasn't sure exactly how many weeks you can stop worrying about that lol! I'm not exactly giving her extra - just what she doesn't get earlier on in the day but I will bear your point in mind about being picked on for getting extra. I can't normally get away with it at other times of the day as even if they are snoozing, they stir and come out to see what's up but there seems to a couple of hours just after it gets dark where they are totally zonked out and commpletely oblivious to any noise or smells lol.

[KawaiiDegus]

i have the same problem with my quadtrooplets, one is a possible runt, but what we do is hand feed her nd bring the bottle to her.

[saggy]

She's coming on much better now She was still way too nervous to come on my hand though or let me touch her or go anywhere near her even though the other two would run all over me and let me stroke them everywhere and you could tell she wanted to but was just too scared. I had a stupid idea though as I noticed she goes to the wheel and runs every time she got stressed so seems to help calm her down and she often hides around the wheel so I thought possibly where she feels safe so I thought maybe it was worth trying to touch her while she's running and possibly calmer - I have very crazy ideas sometimes lol!! Anyway, I put my finger close to her while she was running and she didn't stop and then she moved closer to my finger so she was kinda getting a constant stroke whilst running and she seemed to like it and I felt she had started playing a game and tried to keep herself in the same position so her face didn't move away and then ran higher so I was stroking her behind the ear. After about five minutes of this, I figured I must be going crazy and she's probably really stressed and wondering what the hell is this woman doing so I stopped. She instantly jumped out the wheel, ran down towards to the door and jumped on my other hand/arm and ran up it and let me stroke her and now she lets me touch her whenever so my crazy ideas work sometimes lmao!!! The other two seem to have accepted her more now too and greet her nicely everytime and she sleeps with them properly now so she is much happier although she still wants nothing to do with the arguments the other two have and instantly removes herself to another level when they do lol I can't even work out which of the other two is the boss as they often bicker, occasionally box a little but then they run around together joined at the hip like the two amigos and quite happily take it in turn to hump each other - one does it to the other, then stops, then turns around for the other one to have a go on her back - they lways just seem to take turns - equal amount of goes and equal amounts of time lol? Or are they just practising for a hormone fuelled decider yet to come when they hit their teens as it seems weird to me based on what I've read lmao. The nervous one wont get involved or start arguments but also will not let either of the other two hump her and runs sharpish if one goes to try and you can tell the other two don't mind and don't consider her an issue at all. I was trying to find a better way of saying hump but just couldn't think of another appropriate word lol!!

[moletteuk]

Fantastic that your brainwave worked out with runty goo

The heirarchy with my 3 girls is not all that obvious, and we never had a big decider to settle it. They used to bicker and box a bit for the first few months and then it gradually petered out. I'm certain they do have a heirarchy but I also get the impression they accept each other for their strengths and weaknesses and make allowances for each others foibles. I have seen all of them steal food from each others mouths, so they don't seem hung up on the normal heirarchy rules you might expect.

I suspect your little goo may have to join in and submit to a humping at some point, but with any luck they won't press the issue frequently. Watch out for the amigos flipping her on her back and a massive twittering grooming submission thing occurring.

[saggy]

Funnily enough, I just caught the little one humping the big one and she was like "cool, go ahead" lol, haven't seen her submit yet though lol! Is that a bad thing or a funny thing to watch out for in regards to your last thing mentioned? Well hopefully they will be like your three then as they are all different, the smaller one obviously far more nervous and likes her own space but she has started to go to bed with them and then sneaks out a bit later to do her own thing rather than going to bed at completely different times like before. The middle is most normal one I suppose you could say and chubby as I have began to call her, is fearless so the other two always let her go first with anything new (new food, new cage things and new people) for her to check out and then they they're like okay, that's safe lol!

[saggy]

She has just submitted, doesn't like it for long though. I just gave them a sand bath and they all bagan a happy mass humping spree in there and then decided to invite me and all tried to drag my hand in to participate - not sure how far I'm happy to go to be a co-degu lmao :/

[moletteuk]

Oh go on, it's great to be an honorary degu

The flipping her over thing is just interesting and fascinating, I think it's a good thing for the group, you don't see it often but it seems to be quite important to them.

The outsider goos are sometimes valued in the group because they are often spending time being on watch so they are good for the safety of the group.

[saggy]

Ha - I had to find my bird some alternative partners (slippers with teddies on) as wasn't comfortable with him getting fruity with me lol! I still have to ensure my toes are never on show though as he instantly gets excited over those - go figure!! bird experts say it is a good thing as it means he has truly bonded with you and considers you a mate which they often don't even with others of their own kind as they have trouble pairing birds to breed as they wont just accept anyone of the other sex so they have to just put in a large group and take out any that have paired up naturally lol - I on the other hand consider him my child so just too weird lol!! I suppose they are not really doing it in an actual sexual way so maybe I can deal with being around that lol!!!

I will keep a look out for the flip over thing lol!

Interesting, yeah I can see that they would be considered useful - good to know

[deguconvert]

Haven't been able to be online for a few days, so just read through all this. What a hoot! LOL Loved reading it all!