What went wrong? :-[

[northernstar40]

What went wrong?

Ok what went wrong? I had company this weekend who brought a small child (4yrs old) and a dog (jack Russell terrier) I don’t know who annoyed frit and frat worse the child or the dog. I had to take my teenager to the doctor and left the company at home with my older daughter who is 20. When I came home I found Frit and Frat had both been removed from there home and placed in the travel cage in the bathroom. No water no food. I was furious. They had been in the bath room several hours. So I placed them back into the comfort of there own home. Back into the living room. This was not a safe place for them at this time. So off they went again (but in there comfy home) to my bed room. Door closed so The dog could no longer bark and attack at them. The four year old could no longer poke at them and scream at the top of his lungs “MICE” There is no way the dog can get into the cage but the poor fellows was scared to death. I went in a few hours later to check to make sure they were ok and found Frit inside the house in the corner and poor frat going crazy in the cage running from one level to the next screaming. I hurried and got Frit out he was alive but sick very sick. “Oh gees its Sunday and a holiday weekend no vet open for two days.” I could not see any injuries at all. We cuddled a lot I cried a lot knowing what I would find in the morning. And sure enough, We found Frit laying out side the house with Frat next to him trying to groom his best friend, who was gone. My husband removed him from the home as prepared a box to bury him in. I knew that Frat would not live long with out his friend, so we started making phone calls to replace frit before Frat to would meet his maker. Now it is Sunday an memorial day weekend. But we found a pet store that had some. So off we went on a 2 hour drive to this pet store. Only to find the conditions awful at the pet store. The idiot who was handling them thought he was a expert but knew nothing. Picking them up by there tails and telling me, “they can eat anything. Keep sunflower seeds available at all times.” Ok I know better, tried to explain the “rules of a Degu to him. But decided to pick one and be off. Well pick one I say how can you do that? All the what if’s what if Frat didn’t like this one, what if Frat passes on any way despite all my effort the new guy will be left alone. SOOOOO we come home with two. Now the problem has arrived. One I didn’t think of…. Got another cage for just incase. .. Set the cages side by side so they can see and smell each other. And guess what happens…. The two I bought fight like crazy the smallest of the two was injured. So move him out lets see if Frat will help him out…nope of course not more fighting. Ok now what I don’t have a third cage. The new ones were in the same cage when we bought them there didn’t seem to be any fighting , the got along great coming home so what is going on now? What happened to Frit??? I just want to go back to having only Frit and Frat. Why did he die? wasn’t sick before , So many questions , no answers. It is so weird how attached you are to these guys. My company thought I was nuts carring on an crying like a baby. :'(I think that is why they left early.

[ra]

Northerstar40I am so so sorry. I am crying for you.

What a sad weekend for you and now so frustrating. I wish we lived closer to one another. I would have run to the pet store where I took my boys and got you two.

Perhaps just the stress of moving from the pet store to your home got the two you just bought fighting. I am surprised they would hurt each other.

It's not weird to get so attached. I was heartbroken when my sister took the two girls to Md and I had to take my five boys to the pet store. It had only been five weeks!

As far as Frits' passing it's hard to say. How were they handled while you were gone? Could they have been fed something they should not have been? Was it just too much stress etc. At this point there's no way to know. Again I am so sorry.

It will take time but hopefully the boys will adjust to one another. Is your carrying cage large enough to house the smaller injured one?

[worthym]

My deepest sypathy goes out to you northerstar40 - I know all too well how bad it feels to lose pets, including degus . I'm guessing it must just have been the stress of the whole situation, but it might be worth checking that they were not fed anything nasty or poisionous? (I'm just thinking the 4 year old might give them anything to chew??) I'm sure there was nothing more you could have done, and just hope that you don't blame yourself in any way.
As to advice on what to do with your new degus, is there anyway that you can split the cage up using wire? Perhaps into two halves or into two levels? If not, use the carry cage - I don't know if this is a metal carry cage or what - but if you can make it secure in some way, but place it in the other cage. Basically what you need to do is allow them to get accostomed to each others smells slowly, and then they should be fine.
The reason the new guys are fighting is probably about dominance - see, if there were several together in the pet store, they would already have a social structure. The two you have taken on are now alone from this and need to sort out where they stand - who's boss and who's not! How serious is the fighting? Obviously if it is serious or continuing then resort to the split cage method, letting them get accustomed to each other slowly.
In time hopefully they will become friendlier with each other, and hopefully all 3 degus will live happily together.
Once again, deepest sympathy, and I've got my fingers crossed for little Frat and the two new guys!!

[taz13]

I am sorry to hear about your loss

Maybe the 4yr did something. I know my son is 4 and he gets excited when he sees the boys loose and gets to close and sometimes tries to pet them a little too hard.

That is why I always keep them in my hand during petting time. It is easier for me to move away quickly, if something is about to happen.

Maybe his screaming scare your guy. 4yr old screaming is stressful for anybody. Just think of what the degus are hearing.

Once again, I am sorry for your loss.

[Aimeelou]

Hi northerstar
so sorry for your loss
Maby it was the 4yr old who had somthing to do with it. I had some freinds over at the weekend, and after telling their 5yr old and 6yr old to stop "RAAAing" at the cage, i told them to come close .... and...... went.... RAAAAAAA at them. Scared the sh*t out of them and they promptly sat down and where nice and quiet!!There parents said i have a way with kids I DONT THINK SO !
Hope ive cheered you up a little
Hope your new family start to get along soon with time
Aimee

[northernstar40]

Well today is the day that the three go in the same cage. Keep your fingers crossed that all goes well. I have had them in separate cages but side by side now for a couple of days. And the fighting between the two new ones has settled down allot. I’m going to try it a little at a time though but think it best to put all three together at one time instead of one new with Frat the older one. the switch again to the other new one. I hope I am doing the right thing. I guess ill give it 20 minutes to a hour. do you all think that’s ok? wish me luck. I’m sure that Frat still misses his best friend it seems like he is still searching the house and the cage for him. Frat and my husband were best of buds and now that Frit is gone every time hubby goes to pick up Frat he bites him. I think maybe he knows it was him who removed Frit from the cage. Or may afraid that if he (hubby) holds him he will be gone forever. Let me know your opinions.

[ra]

Answering your questions a bit backwards:

Frat is more than likely emotionally distraught right now and afraid. I would venture that's why he bites your husband. Mocha reverted to an almost 'wild" state after giving birth and my removing the boys from the main cage. I had the same problem. She no longer allows me to scratch her or hold her at all. Heck I can't hardly catch her. I've started over and am going slow. She hasn't bit me & drawn blood in over a week now. She will grab hold of my finger but not bite down. I think they loose some trust when something goes wrong in their world. Takes time to build it back up.

The suggested method of introduction of new cage mates is kind of a pain in the butt - however they suggest you clean your main cage and rinse it with white vinegar to make it a "neutral cage" (no longer smells like Frit and Frat). Then take sand that Frat has rolled in and allow the other two to take sand baths in that so they smell of him.

I do wish you great luck. Am keeping my fingers crossed the boys settle their hierarchy quickly and no one gets seriously hurt.

For the early stages it might help to have a couple of cardboard nesting boxes (shoe boxes etc) so they can all have their own place to hide if need be.

I'll check back later to see if you have given a "good report"1

[Heddy]

Hello Northerstar,

How did the putting them together go?

I reckon the two newbees started fighting, as after removed from their old group, they tried to rebuilt and confirm their ranking.
I think it was a good decision to get two new degus. That way you will not be left in the situation of having a lonely degu again.

Are the two new ones still very young? If they are, usually the old one starts parenting the little ones and the little ones enjoy it. In a later stage they might fight out the ranking again, but at the start it should be rather peace and quiet.

Hope it all goes well for the three!

[Aimeelou]

Hi northerstar
Like ra said with cleaning the cage out so it dosent smell like frit and frat, try putting a little essence in the sand bath like lavender or camomile so that when they rool in it they smell the same. I read this on another website, but never needed to try it so i dont know if it works. Its worth a try. Good luck.

[worthym]

I hope the intro has gone ok with them all. I can only reiterate all the advice that has gone before - such as the neutral cage, the scent (sand bathing in Frats sand to smell like him) and several nest boxes ( although I advise that when they are together they only have one single nest box - as otherwise you may get territorial disputes over the different nest boxes! )
My advice would be to take it slowly, and if it doesn't work, don't give up, just try split caging again, for a longer period. You could always swap them between cages as well, if needs be, to get them used to the different scents.
Let us know how it went - I hope to hear that all3 are happily cuddled up together!!

[northernstar40]

First, Thanks so much to all for the advice, concern and understanding!! You have no idea how much it meant to me. So far sorta good. Frat the oldest and yogi seem to get along ok. but the smaller one, (Booboo) and the shy one too. Is not getting along so well there is constant fighting. If frat hears him on the wheel he is off and running to say "oh NO that mine" hears him drinking water same thing Oh no that’s mine too. Added a extra water bottle a extra dish extra houses. extra room extra everything. humm maybe that’s the problem to much extras. lol The fighting hasn’t been a blood bath yet no blood at all. Not like the first time I tried to put them all together. (wont do that again EVER!) I'm still taking it slow though a few minutes in a hour or so out. But cages still side by side. every time they go in I just leave them a little longer. I have two identical cages so I put them door to door and open them both. I use zip straps to keep them very very close. (no escapes) So they have the run of both cages. Then all I have to do is cut zip straps and close doors. I took everyones advice on the sand baths boy we take alot of baths a day. I think in time all will be well. Again THANKS VERY VERY MUCH.

Peg

[Sunshinemeg]

Hi

Really sorry to hear of all your problems, I would have been online sooner to offer advice, but I have been away, its good that there are so many kind hearted people on this forum to offer support.

Like everyone else, I am totally at a loss as to what could have happened to cause all this, as little pets, a stressful event can result in a death. Its rare, but you need to bare in mind that a small creature is far more vulnerable to such conditions. I think that it could have been a heart attack as a result of the stress. Do you know why they got moved in the first place?

Its very sad, but even though you have had so much trouble since, I think you did the right thing in getting new degus to keep Frat company.

From my own experience, the fighting will stop. There is an initial phase when degus come together, where they need to decide who is going to be in charge. It is possible that the shy degu is not being submissive enough, and so Frat is just showing extra dominance to teach him. Its horrible to watch, trust me I have been through it too, but it does sort itself out, and remember you have a happy degu family to look forward to eventually. If the fighting is not resulting in serious injury, its just this, but be aware of problems should serious injuries occur.

One thing to bare in mind is the smell of the cage, I would suggest a thorough clean out, with mild disinfectant to remove all smells before putting them together, then the smell isnt an issue, as they are too busy checking out everything else to be worried about each other!

good luck, please keep us all informed,

SUNSHINEMEG ;D