Help - too many boys!

[xquisitedegu]

Our 'male' rescue degu, Rascal, had her litter just over 6 weeks ago. We were given Rascal as a present because we had not long lost our one of our two boys.

Consequently, Rascal had 7 gorgeous babies - the forum was so much help with all my little problems as Saffron (our boy) should never had bred as he has multiple mouth/tooth problems from being in-bred.

Our initial sexing gave us 3 girls and 4 boys - perfect, but know how tricky it can be to sex them, we decided to double check a couple of days later. The count is now 1 girl and 6 boys.

My husband intends building a 6ft tall cage with tank for the boys - but can 7 of them live happily together?

Also, mum seems to be missing her pups, so would it be an idea to neuter two of the boys so that we have a group of mum with a daughter and two neutered sons, and a group of 5 boys.

I have to keep them because there is a chance that the babies have inherited their father's mouth problems and I very much doubt that someone would take on 2 or 3 of them knowing that there is a 50/50 chance of future ongoing vets bills (Saffron has to have his teeth done every 4 to 8 weeks).

Also, if I choose to have the 2 boys neutered, at what age would that need to be done? I know that boys become sexually mature from 12 weeks, so would I wait till then?

Is there anyone with experience of keeping larger groups (7 boys) or mixed groups (2 girls & 2 neutered boys) of goos, some advice would be very much appreciated.

I need to get this sorted soon as I want the pups to be accepted back by mum if that is the way I have to go.

Thanks - Jackie :-)

[christineharvey42]

Hi
I've been looking to adopt or foster a cagemate for a rescued goo. They were being neglected and one died just before I got Oscar.

His ears are chewed and tattered so I am assuming he wasn't assertive. I don't think he is nurtured but I can't tell. So If I took in a little boy I would want him nurtured to insure a friendlier cage.

Oscar hasn't been handled and I am not making much headway. I am thinking with a baby that's been handled from birth and seemed to enjoy, welcome a human hand, Oscar might be tempted to try it. He is smart and learns fast so perhaps a little brother could help us all!

Please let me know where you live and what you think

Christine 42 [e-mail]

[abirose]

Although I only have three girls I goosat for a forum user who had a group of six made up of 5 girls and one nuetered boy. I have to say they were a delight to watch because they all used to snuggle together. Goos are supposed to live in big groups and they thrive in those situations one piece of advice would be to make sure you really try and socialise them because my friend used to say that because they were in a big group some were less socialble with humans because they didn't need to be! I take it you have a degu savy vet if they have had to deal with tooth problems so maybe check the sex again just to make extra sure! Maybe see what the group dynamics are you might find that you have a goo that is bottom of the pecking order that might benefit from being in a group with mama. You need to know that you have to wait after any goo gets neutered as they can still get pregnant I think its roughly 2-3 months but double check that!! This is just a suggwstion but could you get mama and the other girl neutered and have one mega goo group?

[yasmin]

I have 5 boys – father Sean and Roku (from Lilac's litter) and Yuu, Makoto, and Chuugi (from Peridot's litter) – altogether in one cage. Roku is 8 months old and the other kids are 7 months old and, other than the odd boxing match and a wee very minor injury or two, they're (knock on wood) getting along fine.

I also have a second cage of five females and a third cage housing six females. The six female cage is made up of two adults and four kids; this is the most peaceful of all three cages. Everyone gets along well, there have been no injuries at all, and the only minor squabbles occur when the adults push the kids away from the food so that they can get the first choice of tidbits. I think that two adults can keep better order in the group. In the boys' cage, there was a month or two when the kids ganged up against their poor father.

The cages I have are large, four-storey Double Critter Nation cages with tubes, hammocks and huts so that each degu can have alone time if they need it. My litters were unexpected (Sean was name "Sienna" when I adopted the four "females". Azure miscarried but the other two, Peridot and Lilac, had babies) and I also decided to keep them all because one of my degus has teeth problems and a few of the kids seem to have some sort of vasculitis and/or autoimmune disorder (symptom: tattered ears).

I had hoped I would not have to neuter anyone because in Canada it costs as much to neuter a degu as it is to buy a double Critter Nation cage. Plus, I was afraid of the risks of neutering. Luckily, I ended up with four baby boys. Otherwise, I would have, at minimum, neutered the father so that he could be with at least one of his 'wives'.

Good luck with your babies – they're so much fun to watch growing up. And it is nice that they can stay together (even though they're in separate cages, my females' cages are right up against each other and they talk to eachother across the bars. The boys' cage is about three feet away because I am afraid of sexual tension if they're too close to the females. However, I think they're close enough to know that their mothers/sisters are nearby and well.)

[listracian]

I don't think you need to neuter. The two groups should be fine

If it comes to issues with the boys and you want to neuter one and put it in with the girls - introductions are nearly non-existent with family members, their memories are amazing! They also can't be neutered before they are a year old! So you would have to keep the two groups separate for a while anyway.

[moletteuk]

I think degu politics can get a little complicated with groups over 6 or 7, but with a good big cage you should be OK. And just to confirm that boys need to be 12 months before they can be neutered.

I think it's worth looking for a second opinion on the sexing of the pups if some of them are a little ambiguous. Would you be able to post photos here, or get an opinion from a rescue worker or vet?

[xquisitedegu]

Just got online and firstly would like to say thank you for all the helpful advice. Christineharvey42, I have sent a message to your email.

It is good to know that they won't forget each other, it means I can take my time and see how the two groups get on before having to decide - especially if males cannot be neutered before a year old.

I am trying to make sure that they socialise with us and am managing to get most of them to come to me - I have a fluffy dressing gown that the goos cannot resist. Saffron is still as loving as ever and his confidence in me means that 4 of the boys are quite happy to come out and use me as a climbing frame - the other two hang back or get on with their own stuff, but I hope they will soon come forward too. Rascal and Phoebe (the only baby I can confidently name at the moment) will moan at me if I am not quick enough to get to giving them a cuddle.

Hopefully, if I get things right, the boys will get on well enough and for now I have time to decide if the girls would benefit from the addition of a neutered boy.

Your replies have given me the confidence that there is a chance this could work out, especially Yasmin's experience of larger groups.

Thank you all :-)

[xquisitedegu]

I had started my message before moletteuk had posted - I will keep an eye on degu politics, I think I will just have to take each day as it comes with them.

Rascal is clearly missing her pups, so there is a chance I will neuter one of the boys when they are old enough.

Thanks again for all the replies :-)

[xquisitedegu]

Found out that there may not be too many boys - I could have got the sexing wrong on two of them.

7am yesterday, Saffron announced with loud repeated chirps, that one of the boys in the cage was a girl!

I am so confused over sexing them. 4 are definitely boys - gap between the two parts and a little line between them.

1 is definitely a girl - everything close together and when you lift the tail, both parts move together, just like her mum - but the other two have their bits closer together than the boys, but when you lift their tails the gap widens a little and there is a less prominent line.

One of the ambiguous ones showed definite signs that he/she was the one that Saffron was chirping about, so I have now put both 'unknowns' in with mum. I know that if they are boys they won't mature for over a month, but I would like to get this sorted soon.

Rascal is loving having two babies back, so I am hoping that they are girls (even with the added complications of this).

Is it possible for girls to have a gap that only shows when you lift the tail, so separating the two parts?

I have asked a vet about this but he was more familiar with guinea pigs - I don't know if they are the same, but he had no real knowledge of degu physiology.

Please let me know if I should start a new thread as my question has kind of developed and changed.

It would be difficult if not impossible to get a photo at the moment as they are just getting used to being properly handled.

Hopefully someone will be able to figure out my description and may know whether my two are he or she :-)

[yasmin]

I think that you should start a new thread so that those on the forum that are sexing experts see it and respond.

I had my vet sex the babies because I was (am still am) so afraid of making a mistake and having even more degus to take care of. Even he had a bit of trouble with the odd "ambiguous" degu that he had to compare with others in order to definitively state whether it was a male or female.

I am no expert but I think that only males will have a substantial gap when you lift the tail (but I'm not sure of this). Compare them with those you know are female/male. I hope someone with more knowledge and experience will answer this question soon.

[deguconvert]

This is a very good question, and one which I wish I could better answer! I think that it is better to err on the side of female at this point, than it is to think male. When we got our two new "boys" to introduce to the older boys, we thought they looked male . . . but there was an "ish" in there that left us only about 90% sure they were male. I think MOST pups are quite distinguishable, but there seem to be the odd ones that make it really difficult to know. Allowing them more time to grow should help?

I don't know what more to tell you, but perhaps you could take a photo of their bits and post them so that we can help you with the question?

[moletteuk]

I've never sexed babies before, but from opinions on photos that people have posted on here, often I think the ambiguous ones turn out to be girls.
Can you get a photo if you put them in a big glass jar, or if you get them sat on a ledge and make them lean forward & down slightly for a treat, you can sometimes reach behind to get a photo.

[xquisitedegu]

Yes, I will definitely keep them in with the girls for the time being, and ways to get a photo are being planned.

I am going to start a new thread as suggested, in the hope that the answer is out there (lol).

Thanks for the help :-)

[deguconvert]

Have you tried holding the degus in question in one hand, while lifting the tail up with your other hand, while another person snaps some shots of the degus bits? This method is easier than trying to hold the degu on it's back with hind legs spread for exposure, while holding them still.