Lethargic Degu

[littlesqueek]

On Saturday night I noticed that Leo wasn’t acting like himself. When I feed him he usually runs to sit next to his food bowl and will defend it by grunting (and making various other noises) if I get too close. Last night when I gave him his hard feed he wasn’t interested in it. All he wanted to do was sit there, rocking, and he was puffed up. So he’s lethargic, off his food and doesn’t appear to be drinking (at least I haven’t seen him dink). He was also rather weak; he failed to jump onto a ledge that he could easily jump on twice. He’s also lost some weight, I last weighed him in January where he was 330g’s, last night he weighed in at 225g’s. I don’t know if that weight loss was gradual or sudden though.

At the moment he’s in the travel cage next to me. I’ve given him plenty of hay, hard food, treats and water. At the moment he’s buried himself in the hay but I can hear him munching away on it.

I’m torn between taking him to the vets now or keeping an eye on him all day today to see if he improves. The only problem is there are no exotic vets within my local area, so I would have to travel with him on the trains through London and I’m worried that will stress him out.

I’ve read that Lethargy is a sign of another illness but I don’t know what that could be. I accidently left the window open on Friday night and the room got cold so is it possible he caught a chill or something?

[moletteuk]

With the combination of lethargy, weakness, off food and drink I would try to get him to the vet straight away. They hide illness so well, these signs together are a strong indicator that a vet is probably needed. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[deguconvert]

It's difficult to say if he has caught a chill . . . the cold would only have affected him if he was already fighting something off. If he was . . . then the cold could have made things significantly worse for him. I hate to say, as I know you are concerned about the stress it will cause him, but I really think he needs to see a vet. A weight loss of over 100 grams, whether sudden or over a month's time, is dramatic, and the lethargy is a very important symptom that shouldn't be ignored . . . ever. Degus are built to disguise illness and pain so that they don't stand out to predators, and the fact that he is visibly demonstrating the symptoms you have described means that he doesn't have the strength to hide it anymore. I am afraid he is quite ill, honey.

You need to have him seen by a vet . . . and I think that if you can take him to a near by one, they can at the least listen to see if there is chest or sinus trouble, or any of the other things that any rodent can suffer from. This much they can do . . . and if they want advice or are uncertain, or even if YOU are uncertain of what you see in the vet, go armed with the phone number and name of an exotic vet and shove it into your vets hands and ask them to call for a consult.

[littlesqueek]

I rang up my local vets and the receptionist told me that they have vets that look at chinchilla’s and where more than qualified to look at a Degu. So I took him down and the vet informed me that they haven’t seen many Degu’s but she was happy to examine him. I must say I was quiet impressed with her despite her limited knowledge.

She listened to his heart.

Felt his abdomen. (She said she felt something firm in his stomach area but the specialist informed her that might be a kidney she was feeling.)

He peed on the table so she took that opportunity to test him for diabetes (he was fine).

She rang up a specialist and said she could get an appointment with them, but I have no way of getting to them and their last appointment was before my partner finished work.

So she gave me some painkillers and some antibiotics to see if that would help him. She also told me to try syringe feeding him which I’m not sure who to do.

I’ve given him the dosage of painkillers and antibiotics (had to squirt it into the side of his mouth), and he’s eaten a little bit of hey and porridge oats.

Hopefully he’ll pull through.

[moletteuk]

I hope he perks up a bit soon.

The other fairly routine thing you could ask your regular vet or specialist vet to do is check all his teeth. It's quite common for them to overgrow, and then the degu finds it difficult to eat, painful and can cause abcesses. Vets normally use anaesthetic gas to briefly knock out the degu so they can have a quick but thorough look in the mouth.

Did the vet give you any food to syringe feed him with? You can get powdered food, such as Oxbow Critical Care, which you mix with water to make a paste. You can then put it in a syringe and squirt it into the mouth just like you did with the meds. You can also dollop it onto favourite foods, like a thin slice of brazil nut or a flat flaked pea, it just helps get some energy into them and stimulates appetite and helps get the gut going again. It's also good for friendly bacteria while they are on antibiotics. You could call back at the vet for the powdered food or you can order it online. Or you could try some vegetable baby food for now.

I think it's a good sign if he has eaten some hay

[littlesqueek]

Today I kept him in the travel cage and I’ve been close to him for most of the day. He had access to food and water but he didn’t take any, he sniffed the food but didn’t have any.

So I got some of his pellets and mixed them with boiling water, allowed for it to cool and tried to feed it to him with a syringe. I thought he had given up on himself since he hadn’t done anything today apart from sleep, sometimes moving and then sleeping. So when I felt him nibbling on the end of the syringe it let me know he was still willing to live (first time I had seen him eat for a day and half, I hope I wasn’t too late to help I was giving him the option to eat on his own). I kept on feeding him until he outright refused to take anymore. So I’m going to do the same thing again in about 4 hours time. Also managed to give him a couple millilitres of pure water. He also tried to escape into the sofa, which must be a good sign.

The vet did look at his front teeth while he was there, but she was dubious about looking at his back teeth because they needed to knock him out to do it. I guess I really should have let them but I was afraid he wouldn’t wake up afterwards.

[moletteuk]

I think if he is showing some interest in soft food, but not hard, then that makes me more suspicious there could be a problem with his back teeth. I think I would take him back to the vet or the specialist vet and risk the procedure of them looking properly at all of his mouth. If they use gas anaesthetic the risks are less.
How's he doing today?

[luna1]

I just wanted to say good luck with him.

It is vitally important that you keep him hydrated, never leave them to drink on their own when they are unwell as IME, they never do. Dehydration is a huge issue in mortality with Degus.

It is possible to examine a Degu's Molar teeth by scope without sedation but that would depend on the Vet. My Degu's are inspected this way regularly before we decide if they need a procedure.

I agree with Moletteuk, it really does sound like he has molar problems and the sooner he gets this done the better. I know it is scary having them sedated for it but it is necessary and I have had this done more times than I care to remember and touch wood, they have all come through it. In saying that, there is always a risk but if your little guy is in pain then it needs doing. Most knowledgable Vets use a gas that doesn't quite knock them out, rather, heavily sedates them, this also ensures that they come round very quickly. I cannot remember the name of it now but there are 2 types, one being much better, but more expensive, than the other.

If you do go ahead, try to get as much food as possible into him before the procedure to get his weight up. This is because they don't feel like eating for a few days afterwards and also they are a bit stronger for the procedure. Make sure also that there is no food left in his mouth before hand, they all seem to like keeping some in their cheeks, as it can cause choking problems. I normally get round this by syringing plenty of water into them to clear out the mouth. It doesn't always work but is sensible. These little creatures cannot be intubated when they are under so it is vital that they can breathe freely, without obstruction.

Please update us on him

[littlesqueek]

Leo is at peace now.

For two days I kept him near me in the travel cage. He had hay, food and water, but he never touched it while I was watching him. So I started syringe feeding him mashed up pellets and porridge (made with water) to keep him going. But most of the time it was a fight to get him to eat it, I fed him a few millilitres of food and water every few hours to keep him going. But he was a very poorly Degu.

Today I took him to the specialist. I was hoping that it was something simple to fix, like his teeth needed filling down or something like that. The vet sedated him and looked at his teeth, they also took an x-ray while they where at it. His teeth where fine.

There was an unidentified mass in his abdomen (possibly a tumour). But the vet said they didn’t know what it was or what organ in was related to without operating. They gave me three options, 1) they could give me more antibiotics and pain killers and send me home with some critical care, see how he was in a few days, 2) They could continue their investigation by operating on him, but they weren’t sure if he would be able to cope with the procedure. Option number 3) was to have him put to sleep.

Although he was still fighting and he was a bit more responsive today then he had been we had to take into account his quality of life and whether it was fair to put him through more stress. So I decided to let him go, end his suffering. There where some times when he did eat from the syringe but most of the time he wasn’t cooperative. He was also about 5 years old, though I’m not really sure, the vet said he was an old chap..

I adopted him in July 2010 from a member I met on these forums. He was a loner and my intentions where to pair him up with my Degu’s. In those 21 months I developed a bond with him, everyone else called him a psycho, but he was my little psycho. He wasn’t hand trained when I adopted him at the age of 3ish, but he was the first Degu to let me tickle them under the chin. It makes me sad that he spent most of his life alone, although I tried several times to integrate him with others.

R.I.P Leo my psycho Degu, I’ll miss you. Diner time in the Degu room will never be the same again without your chirps, tweets and grunts. May your food bowl always be full and your hammocks warm. Take care of Nemo and wait for me at Rainbow Bridge x

[coronasol]

Awe, I'm so sorry to hear that It sounds like you did the right thing, operating on such small animals is a real challenge for vets, and based on the X-ray, it sounds like it was something pretty serious. It's sometimes better to let them go peacefully, evem though it's just as heartbreaking. RIP Leo

[moletteuk]

I'm very sorry about Leo, rest in peace little fella.

[deguconvert]

I am so sorry for your loss of Leo, Littlesqueak! How deeply sorrowful and painful for you. I had hoped for better things, but by the sounds of it, the mass in his little tummy was determined to have it's own way. My thoughts are with you, love.