Update on degus with tattered ears

[yasmin]

The deterioration of the ears of some of my degus continues. The vet had warned me that this would be the case but a few days after bringing Rei to the vet (three weeks ago), Gigi's ears suddenly deteriorated to the point that they were bleeding. Not only are the edges of her ears sloughing off, but one of them looks like a big portion of it is gone! And it is bleeding/raw. I tried treating it with polysporin but she did not like me touching her ears (okay with me patting her head). When I get some polysporin on the ear, she rolls in the litter to try and take it off.

Over the past two and a half weeks it would heal a bit and then again be raw and bleeding so I made an emergency appointment with the vet last night. He said that the loss of ear was right down to the cartilage! And when he swabbed her ear canals, black stuff came out! Is this normal? He thought maybe she had ear mites but he checked it out under the microscope – no evidence of mites was found. Also no evidence of fungus, or bacterial issues.

He proposed three options: 1) do a biopsy – but he said most often it doesn't determine anything useful and Gigi would then lose more of her ear to the biopsy;
2) separate her from the other degus to give the ear a better chance to heal and to see if maybe one of the other goos is guilty of severe barbering (the vet used the word 'zombie' in reference to a goo that would do such a thing – barbering usually involves overgrooming the fur of the other, not eating its ear off!); and/or 3) give them a herbal medication that calms the immune system (he thinks that the tattering of the ears might be vasculitis caused by an dysfunctional genetically-based autoimmune response).

I'm starting with separating them. Rei (who has two badly tattered ears) and Gigi are now in the top portion of the cage, with their Mom Peridot and sisters Meiyo and Jin in the bottom half. The vet advised to keep them separated for two weeks. That way, Rei's and Gigi's ears should have a chance to heal if Peridot, Meiyo or Jin are barbering.

I also have two boys in the boys' cage with tattered ears similar to Rei's. There has been, knock-on-wood, no ear issues at all in the cage housing Azure, Lilac and Lilac's girls.

Any feedback/opinions/comments on what I am doing would be sincerely appreciated – I really didn't want to separate them but I don't know what else to do.

[moletteuk]

I'm sorry it's getting worse
I think separating Rei and Gigi for a couple of weeks to rule out barbering is a good idea. Although if you have a couple of seperate boys with the same thing going on, it seems more likely to be genetic (if they are all the same litter/ related) although you could have another 'barber', I suppose.

The black stuff in the ear canal sounds worrying. Could it have been old blood? Did the vet have any thoughts on relating this to the outside ear problems?

Sorry I haven't got anything more useful to say

[yasmin]

Thanks for responding moletteuk. You do have something useful to say – your comments and questions help me to refocus my thoughts and cope with these issues. Accepting the fact that it's genetic is difficult because it means there is little hope and that treatment will only be to slow down the process, not cure it. I feel bad for these poor little guys brought into this world because of a sexing error.

I forgot to ask the vet what the black stuff was – initially he thought it was due to ear mites but found no evidence of it. Thank you for suggesting that it might be dried up blood; I think that makes total sense.

It helps me to write on the forum so I will keep this thread updated. Maybe it will someday be helpful to someone else – even if it just makes someone think twice before breeding their degus or to encourage people to double-check the sexes of their degus when they get them.

[moletteuk]

Well, if it does turn out to be genetic and it's a case of managing the problem as best you can, then at least they are with a loving owner who is providing diligent care and vet care. You are doing everything you can, you didn't deliberately breed them, it's not your fault they were mis-sexed, so although you might feel sad, try not to feel bad about it.

With your options 1 and 3, the biopsy and herbal medicine, I don't see any harm in trying either or both of these if you are inclined to do so.

How are they in themselves? I would think the outer parts of the ears at least aren't all that sensitive, much less sensitive than other places anyway.

Do keep us updated

[moletteuk]

I was thinking a bit more about the black gunk in the ears, if it is blood, it could easily have just entered from the outside, maybe the odd drop of blood, or little pieces of scab, which could then mix with the waxiness in the ear to form gunk. So if it is this, it's not really a new thing to worry about

[yasmin]

So, Rei and Gigi have been separated from the others for a week now and their ears have healed up (still raggedy looking but not raw and/or bleeding anymore). Peridot's, Meiyo's, and Jin's ears are still in perfect order, so I think it's safe to conclude that they are not barbering each other. Were they just barbering Rei and Gigi?

Another possible reason for the tattered ears that I am now considering is based on how Rei and Gigi rest/hide by putting their heads under the wheel. There is a solid metal Flying Saucer wheel on the top level where Rei and Gigi now reside, and a metal grate/mesh-like standard chinchilla-sized wheel on the bottom level where Peridot, Meiyo and Jin reside. Maybe Rei and Gigi's ears were being injured by other degus using the metal mesh-like wheel while they were under it. You'd think they would stop sticking their heads under it if it hurt, but who knows?

I have just ordered another flying saucer wheel for the boys' cage – two of the boys have tattered raw ears at the moment. I will need to spend time on the weekend observing to see if these two boys also like to stick their heads under the wheel.

I will be taking Azure to the vet on the 21st to have her back molars checked – I will ask him then if the black deposit in Gigi's ears might have been blood. I really think you are right about that, moletteuk.

[moletteuk]

Wow, that's potentially fantastic news, I'm so pleased Wouldn't it be brilliant if it turns out just to be something daft like the mesh wheel?? And, wouldn't it be just typical if it turns out after making you sooo worried, that the only thing wrong with them is stupidity Keep watching, keep me posted!

[deguconvert]

LOL!! I have to agree, Moletteuk. Trust a degu to keep his head where it shouldn't be, at the expense of his poor ears! I do hope that this will prove to be the cause of all their trouble, and will then be something that can be creatively prevented from re-occuring. Please do keep us posted!

[yasmin]

Darn, those degus! Rei and Gigi's ears are bleeding again. They're now altogether and the only wheels they have access to are the all metal flying saucer wheels. They still rest under the wheels but I can't see how those wheels can cause that sort of injury.

Now what? Guess I will split them again – Rei and Gigi on the upper level; mama Peridot and Meiyo and Jin on the second level – wait a week or so until Rei's and Gigi's ears have healed up again, and then maybe introduce just one of the others (probably mama Peridot since it looks as if Gigi really misses her mom. She's been cuddling up to her since they were re-introduced a few days ago).

Luckily, reintroductions go very smoothly – as if they were never separated – so I don't mind doing that again. Also, I was worried that the separation was stressing Rei out because she has been chewing the bars so incessantly that she is missing a spot of fur above her nose, but she's still doing that even though they're altogether.

Any advice/opinions/comments would be greatly appreciated.

[moletteuk]

Oh

How long were they separate for in total? Did the bleeding start soon after them all going back together?

I guess I'm asking whether the culprit, degu or cage related, is definitely something in the 'altogether' arrangement? If so, could it be something else in the cage, or do you think this means it is one of the other goos barbering? Could the edge of the saucer be slicing/whacking the fragile ear tips?

[yasmin]

They were separated for almost two weeks. I put them back together this week – Monday evening. Tuesday evening I noticed a bit of rawness on Rei's ear (but thought that I might be overreacting). Then last night, Gigi's ear was definitely bleeding, and Rei's worse than before. All three of the others look totally fine.

Yes, I agree that this seems to prove that it has something to do with the 'altogether' arrangement. They had a flying saucer wheel when it was just the two of them and it is that same one that they all 'rest' under. Why is it that just Rei's and Gigi's ears are damaged? Maybe it's because they suffer from vasculitis that makes them numb to injury and therefore they don't move if they're being hurt?

I thought I'd introduce only one of the other goos after Rei and Gigi's ears have healed to see if that makes a difference. Thank goodness the weekend is coming – that'll give me more time to watch them. Thanks for your input, moletteuk.