luna1
Burrowing Degu
Nozzle, my miracle!
Posts: 143
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Post by luna1 on Mar 12, 2012 12:36:49 GMT
Hi, For the last few weeks, months even! Most of my Degu's have virtually gone on eating strike and it's getting to the stage where I dread feeding times. A bit of background: 4 of them have had health problems, ranging from moderate to severe and these particular one's have an excuse as some are having to re-learn their routine again. But the others, one by one have gradually started leaving more and more food. My smallest female had gut problems at the back end of last year and into this year and she has never really regained her appetite. She is so tiny and has always been fussy but I am running out of ideas with her. They have all been health checked and any issues resoved where necessary. Luna was last at the Vet a week ago and her teeth were rasped 2 weeks ago. My Vet gave her a Vitamin injection last week, her gut was examined but it was empty, so no impaction of pellets or dental issues. I am pulling my hair out in frustration. She looks like a cruelty case and my Vet and I can find no reason for it apart from her hormones because of the time of year. She does seem to be affected much more than the other girls when she is in oestrus. I have experienced eating problems before on a milder scale during breeding season but this breeding season has to be the worst. They all used to be fed on PAH Degu pellets in the morning, lots of hay with various dried flowers, herbs and leaves in constant supply and then pellets again in the evening. They gradually started going off the hard feed so I gradually introduced Science selective Degu and they started to eat those. Around 5 weeks ago these also went out of favour so I carried on with their original feed and slowly intoduced Degu Beapher Xtravital into it but I don't like the selective feeding that this encourages but have stuck with it for the few that still eat it! They are all eating their hay, herbs, dried veg and leaves. Fresh veg has only ever been eaten by 4 out of 11 but I still offer it to all. I am taking their bowls out after half an hour so they can't keep going back to it and store it all for later. They have constant hay so don't need and have never been used to food on tap as it were. I dread the sound of Degu's storing now as that is all you can hear in my house at the moment! I know that a lot of mine are sensitive and jumpy during breeding season but this is rediculous. I am thinking that I have given them too much choice so have stuck with the same mix of food for the last month but end up putting most of it in the bin. There is nothing wrong with the food as all packets are new and freshly opened, if it isn't eaten within 2 weeks of opening I give it to my friend whose Degu's gladly finish it off. Seeing as health problems have been ruled out and some weigh less than ever, has anybody got any ideas on what I can do to get them eating again? I have compared their weights with this time last year and the results are scary! They are out of their cages everyday, as normal all at the normal times, I am sticking ridgidly to routine as they are such creatures of habit. Sorry for such a long post but I am feeling quite depressed about it and verging on desperate. It is so energy sapping and disheartening at the moment
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 12, 2012 13:57:57 GMT
This might sound like a very strange idea, but have you considered getting a neutered male?
One of our members, Blossombrooks, you will have seen her on here, started out with two females. Daisy was greatly affected by her oestrus, and seemed to be in to see the vet nearly every 21 days because of excessive swelling, rawness of skin on her bits, and so on. She would become extremely active and frantic emotionally. After several months of trying to help Daisy in any way she could think of, Blossombrooks discussed the idea of trying a neutered male with her two girls. It took some time to introduce them, but even before they were all settled and together, Daisy began to show signs of improvement. They have been together for several months now, and Daisy is doing very well.
I wonder if bringing a neutered male into your group would bring about the same improvement to your girls?
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luna1
Burrowing Degu
Nozzle, my miracle!
Posts: 143
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Post by luna1 on Mar 12, 2012 14:18:41 GMT
Funnily enough DG, I have been thinking that Noris - neutered male who has just gone through ear surgery - may be a candidate for joining the the girls if his Brother and him cannot be reunited due to Boris' bad attitude but this would only be a last resort as they have been together for 3 yrs and I really want to reinstate his previous living set up as I think that it will help him in his rehabilitation. I didn't really want to take on sny more Degu's at the moment as my hands are full with the ones that I have. The only exception will be any pups that may be born although that's looking unlikely. Boris and Noz live right next door to the 3 ladies as we are still trying to get one of the girls and Boris to breed! That in itself is another soap opera of a story. I was going to move the girls into my room when I finally achieved pregnancy as it is a calmer, quiter room but at this rate I will be waiting until the end of the year. Luna's sister, Tia, used to be like this but she has now been spayed due to cystic ovaries. Her eating issues are down to molar root problems but when we get these surgically clipped (again, different ones this time) her appetite will recover. As Luna seems to be in oestrus much more than the other 2 girls, just like Tia used to be, I have toyed with the idea of getting her spayed. But there is no medical reason for it and it is such a risky procedure that I just cannot justify having her done and putting her through all of that. But she is certainly a slave to her hormones and I just can't wait for breeding season to end even though I was hoping to breed. My other boys are all in a different room and despite this being their second and third breeding seasons, fourth in one boy I think, they are joining the 'anorexic' ranks of the others oh.......what to do?
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 13, 2012 4:10:54 GMT
That really is strange!! I wonder what on earth is beneath it all!
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 13, 2012 16:50:28 GMT
I guess it's difficult to tell how much of the food they are stashing they are later eating? So you've tried the 3 main hard feeds available in the UK, I think it's fairly common for goos not to like them all that much, but I suppose more unusual for them to shun them for so long that they lose lots of weight. Have they got more picky as you have introduced more herb mixes and so on? Could it be that they are developing a taste for the more natural stuff? If so, you could try JR Farm Premium/ Special or take the natural feeding to the next step and try to provide all the food they need yourself. Do they like grains and seeds? Are they keen on the leaves & herb mixes, twigs, flowers and so on?
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ava
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 215
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Post by ava on Mar 13, 2012 17:14:21 GMT
From your last post I get the impression you're moving degus between cages to get them to breed? Though I could just be getting confused. However, if this is the case, is it possible that since they know there are degus of the opposite sex about they're more concerned about trying to get to them so they can mate, than anything else, such as eating? I wouldn't know though. Just an idea.
Anyway, sounds like a worrying situation and I feel for you - good luck with it.
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luna1
Burrowing Degu
Nozzle, my miracle!
Posts: 143
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Post by luna1 on Mar 14, 2012 13:43:51 GMT
Thanks for all of your replies, Ava, the cages are in the same place that they have always been for the last few years, I am not very good at explaining myself, sorry for the confusion I have been trying to breed only one of my boys and one of the girlies for the whole of this breeding season and these 2 Degus come out of their respective cages and go into another room in their playpen so that they can have a little privacy and not upset the others. They get on very, very well but unfortunately, she hasn't felt ready to let him mate with her, although we always get to the grooming stage and her presenting her rump to him.... he is being incredibly patient! but I am not planning on breeding any of the others at all, it must be these 2 because of their good health ( very rare with most of mine) and the fact that they are not at all related. Moletteuk, I have started taking the food out after 10 minutes so they have less time to store it. I think that you have hit the nail on the head about them getting more picky as I have introduced more herbs, flowers, leaves, grains and seeds. Most of them love it!I feed JR Farm herbs of the field in with their hay every 3 days or so and they love it they also have another JR Farm snack once a week as well. I don't think that I have tried the premium/special yet but may well have done as we seem to have had most of their produce over the years from Zoo plus. I now throw masses of hay downstairs every day instaed of just in the hayfeeder with various natural food thrown in as they are not eating. i tend to do this when yet another meal has been rejected! I have always loved the idea of natural feeding but wanted to do it on a 50/50 basis as I still have a few that are fussy/suspicious about some of the natural produce I regularly put in. I don't feel that I can watch what each one eats and more importantly, any teeth/health problems when they free range feed. I have always separated mine off at meal times - long story of how I do it, but it works- because there is a lot of bullying normally and the small ones get smaller and the big ones get bigger if I don't intervene. Also I am not confident that I will get the mix right with natural feeding and that they may miss out on vital nutrients. I know that there is a very comprehensive natural feeding project on here but it is all a bit daunting to be honest. It is not a subject in which I am well educated yet although I am slowly learning. In saying all of the above, I embarked on feeding my dogs a species appropriate, natural diet (BARF) around 10 yrs ago and have never looked back but it took 2 yrs of intensive research and a lot of advice/support from my Vet. Natural feeding in Degus he isn't as well versed in and like me, he is concerned that they won't get the right balance for their health. I will keep reading and hoping for a comprehensive list as to what to feed, how often and why and then may do it once I fully understand it all and am happy that I won't starve them ;D
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 14, 2012 17:11:53 GMT
I totally understand your feelings regarding the natural diet, especially with your special needs goos and some being big and others small, things get complicated so fast! I think it's absolutely the right thing to take it as far as you think is right for your goos and to do this at your own pace. Have a look at the JR Farm Premium or Special though, see what you think, they are their version of a complete food but have very few extruded bits & lots of natural stuff, so it might suit you and them quite well.
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luna1
Burrowing Degu
Nozzle, my miracle!
Posts: 143
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Post by luna1 on Mar 15, 2012 12:44:31 GMT
Thanks for that I have ordered some of the JR Farm premium so we shall see how that goes down, although I'm not holding my breath! Luna has become an absolute joke now and not in a funny way, in that she will not even look at what I provide in a bowl for her, she wrinkles up her small, furry, little face with whiskers twitching, squinks at me and then runs off. I have resorted to hand feeding her oats and syringing Critical Care into her on the odd day when I fear she will drop through lack of food. She has seen the Vet 3 times in 4 weeks because of this and I am now so lost for ideas that I have booked her in again for a thorough mouth inspection, X-Rays of whole body including molar roots and will get her checked for cystic ovaries as I mentioned in another post, her Sister had this last yr. better safe than sorry. It seems at the moment that the harder I try the worse it becomes and I can't do right, for doing wrong. The only thing they all eat is the homemade cookies but Degus can't survive on cookies alone! As I try to keep telling them, wish they could talk! ;D
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 16, 2012 20:24:01 GMT
Sounds like quite a tough situation. What sort of weight is she? If everything turns out to be OK healthwise, have you considered whether she is playing you? It might sound a bit weird, but could there be an element of them acting out to try and get the food they want or attention from you?
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luna1
Burrowing Degu
Nozzle, my miracle!
Posts: 143
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Post by luna1 on Mar 17, 2012 11:14:12 GMT
Luna has always been small and hyperactive but she currently weighs 204 grams which even for her is low. Her ideal weight is around 220 grams but she hasn't been this weight since November last year. Moletteuk, I take it for granted that she is playing me, in fact most of them are! The trouble is, I have created a rod for my own back by providing lots of other foods when they refuse their normal feed. I am now considering that after I have cleaned all cages out - therefore eliminating all stash! - I will only provide hay and absolutely no added herbs, leaves, flowers etc for the moment and put food in their bowls twice a day as we used to do. This is going to take some doing on my behalf as I hate to think of them hungry and miserable. My Daughter doesn't think that I will be able to do it, but I know I will have to try for at least 3 days. My theory on this is that they will get so bored with the hay and hungry they will HAVE to eat. The only downside that I need to consider is my 'special needs' one's who perhaps not be able to cope with this. I am well and truly running out of ideas!
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 18, 2012 3:44:59 GMT
I think it is worth a try, Luna1. Let us know how it goes. I'm hoping it will be exactly what they need to spur them back to eating well.
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 18, 2012 11:53:24 GMT
I think it's quite a good idea too, but I think I might try the JR Farm food first if it's on its way to you already. I think I'd be taking on a battle of wills with 'super player' degus as an absolute last resort, I think it could take longer than 3 days.
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luna1
Burrowing Degu
Nozzle, my miracle!
Posts: 143
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Post by luna1 on Mar 27, 2012 14:29:43 GMT
Well it has been well over a week now since I have gone on 'spoiling Degus' strike and I introduced the JR Farm premium feed. They were all interested in it, as they would be! But we have now gone down the road of selective feeding, this was my fear. They pick out bits like dried peas, parsnip etc but leave all the flowers and grassy, stem bits they also like to leave it in their bowls and pick at it so I have been removing bowls after half an hour. Luna passed her health check at the Vet and he is of the same opinion as me, she is a slave to her hormones but has worked out how to manipulate me very well he suggested I stopped focusing on her at food times and watched from a distance. I have done this and the end result is that she has lost 5 grams in a week her 2 sisters who were also on the large side have lost weight as well. They are all eating hay so that is one good thing. Diezel, who was my best eater, has had teeth problems for the first time in 4 yrs, I think through recent fussiness and not eating properly. His teeth are not as orange as they were and my Vet also found a broken tooth at the back so we think that he is lacking in vitamins and nutrients as the 2 are more than a coincidence. He is eating OK now but he could do better. Degus have very strong wills and although I think I will sit it out, not at the expense of their health I won't. I will just have to battle on and hope that when breeding season is over in the very near future, common sense will prevail, although I don't really know who's common sense I am talking about ;D
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 27, 2012 19:53:43 GMT
Good to get an update Do you think they might eat more of the healthy stuff in the mix if you leave the bowls in? I don't think there is such a problem of you not being able to keep track of how much they have stashed when it's the healthy stuff left in the bowl, what do you think? I should confess and tell you that my goos are all ravenous beasts that eat anything and everything and put weight on no matter what I do (so I have the opposite problem to you!)...but back when they were growing up and eating sensibly, they would eat all the best bits straight away and then gradually through the day they would more or less eat everything else up. If they didn't eat a big enough percentage of the whole mix, they got given less until they did. I know you know that, but sometimes I think we tie ourselves in knots because we care so much, and it's easy to lose track of basic principles, particularly once you've tried to enter the mind of the degu ;D PS I distribute the peas, parsnips, carrots, beetroot and bean flakes in the JRF Premium VERY carefully, and discard some of the been flakes, I wish they put perfectly healthy veg in there *sigh*.
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luna1
Burrowing Degu
Nozzle, my miracle!
Posts: 143
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Post by luna1 on Mar 28, 2012 11:46:41 GMT
Oh M, how I envy you, having Degus who will eat anything! Up to The start of Winter last year, I was putting most of mine on diets. A couple of them were over the 300 gram mark but those culprits are big Degus. Like yours, most of mine would eat anything. I have considered leaving the bowls in and am beginning to think that you are right about this. The only problem it causes is because they pick throughout the day, when it comes to dinner time, they aren't hungry so only end up getting one meal. I always like to feed them twice a day and back in the good old days, they were getting 4 grams in the morning and the same in the evening which seemed to suit them. Perhaps I should just go with the flow a bit more and work to their agenda. Trying to enter the mind of a Degu is nigh on impossible because they all think differently and just when you think that you have it sussed, they contradict every Degu principle I have probably confused things more today because they didn't touch any of their JRF last night so this morning I have offered some Beapher Xtravital, some ate some of it, others looked at me in complete disgust. I really do think that I need to stick with just one type of food, like it or lump it. In saying that, Luna refuses all food and I am baffled as to exactly what she is living on at the moment!
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