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Post by saylor on Mar 10, 2012 21:44:44 GMT
okay so, yesterday was a big day. i was out for two days, and when i came back i went to get my girl flick out of the cage and- suddenly- babies. two of them.
problem is, flick had a badly prolapsed uterus that had kind of dried up, and she was very weak, so spaying her would have likely killed her- she was very cold, and barely breathing. we had to put her down. the reason we didn't notice before was that we thought they were all girls, and i was much more concerned with another of my 'goos (who's now pretty healthy) to notice flick getting all chubby.
so now i have two little 'goos, who we estimate are about 5 days old (this is based upon two dead babies we found, they were under the nest box that got moved, so i think they may have accidentally been squished- that and all three of the 'goos were spending a lot of time in there, and flick's skinny condition). i've called them topsy and turvey, and they're a little girl and a little boy.
turvey is bigger and has his eyes open, topsy's kind of small and hasn't opened her eyes fully yet. they're both drinking kitten formula (1:5 ratio, 1 being the formula) every 2 hours or so. i'm also keeping them warm and letting them meet their father and auntie but under safe conditions, just in case the bigger 'goos hurt them somehow (i'm just paranoid about it, when they're a bit bigger i'll feel safer).
i just wanted any tips on hand-rearing that might be had. it's hard being awake all night/waking up every 2 hours to feed them, but i'm determined, and they seem pretty strong (they both like to go on wobbly little adventures). they like feeding, even though topsy takes longer because she's smaller and can't feed as well.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 10, 2012 22:29:21 GMT
WOW! That is certainly an surprise for you!! I am very sorry that two pups and Mum have died in the process. It must have been a blow to find Flick in that condition, and I am very sorry for you loss. Bravo for all your efforts since that time, keeping the pups fed, warm, safe, and thriving!!
Degus are phenominally excellent care gives of their pups, and all degus in the colony contribute to their care, so you can trust Daddy and Auntie to be very careful with them. However, you have to do what you feel is the right thing, and what you are comfortable with.
Something that I wonder about is how difficult it is to feed such tiny pups by syringe or by eye dropper. They are not used to licking and want to suckle, so their ability to get what they need must be challenging for both you and them. Which brings me to what I wonder. I am wondering if a small bit of dense sponge could be used to soak up some of the milk and then held to the pups mouth to be suckled from? I know that it is something that would have to be securely held so that none of it were ingested, which would most certainly be fatal, so the risk may be too high to have any worth. Or . . . what about a bit of sponge inside a piece of thin cotton cloth, and the baby could suckle from that? I know I'm just postulating ideas here, so you can toss these if you want . . . but I'm just wondering if it would help to improve the success of each feeding, as well as make it a little easier?
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Post by saylor on Mar 10, 2012 22:45:15 GMT
yeah, it was horrible. my family feeds and keeps them with water when i'm away, and i always check them right after, but recently my time's been taken up with uni stuff and about 5 trillion essays so there was less playing than usual, which is why i didn't notice. if i had, it'd be different, but there's no use thinking of could-bes.
they're drinking okay, and they actually suck on the syringe thingy we use! the only issue is, it's hard to get the milk out and thus topsy can't drink much before being all worn out. i'm babysitting right now, but i think the sponge thing would be a great idea. they both like chewing, with their little baby teeth, and i know topsy's capable of it (she likes suckling on turvey's ears, which he seems to hate- there's little squeaking matches as she tries to cling to him and he tries to wriggle so she can't reach). i'm gonna try to find some sponge when i get home, it'll be much easier for her to drink from, and it means we won't have to feed one, then the other. topsy's the one i worry about, because she's the smaller and weaker. she's also much more pink, her brother's got a good coat of silky fluff.
and yeah, i want to put them in the cage when they're weaned. their aunt is a bit skittish and although i know the big 'goos will care for them, i want to make sure she won't carry them off at feeding time or try to keep me from taking them to feed. she's been kind of moody since yesterday- well, i took her sister away and she's not come back, so i can understand why.
i'm gonna try to find out how much it'll cost to get daddy neutered. it's really weird thinking of him as a boy, but i don't want another surprise like this.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 11, 2012 5:25:48 GMT
Degu mums are typically fairly laid back when it comes to a human touching their pups, so I am thinking that the Aunt will be OK with it once she adjusts to things . . . which really shouldn't take long. Besides, the pups really need the example of adult degus being around them to learn what being a degu is all about. Otherwise they can become a little strange mentally.
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Post by Ady on Mar 11, 2012 11:25:45 GMT
Hi, you doing a good job. *happy* I wonder if the auntie isn't pregnant too?
Also I think babies tummies should be stimulate somehow to help with urinating and bowel movement. I think massaging it. I'll try to look it up.
Also it looks like Topsy might be premature baby as she hadn't open her eyes yet.
Good luck
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Post by dyzired on Mar 11, 2012 12:42:48 GMT
Okay.. I don't know how many people on here have successfully hand reared degu pups before.. But I did with my boy Moose. He'll be a year old this month already and I had him since he was only a couple days old... On too of that he had many injuries to his head, tail, ear and nose. What I did for him was I first started giving him a mix of chamomile tea, a drop Of honey, and I used goats milk (seemed to work best, and I read it's one of the better milks to use out there) then that mixture got him interested in drinking from a syringe (I used a 1/2cc or 1cc syringe. I tried doing the sponge/cloth method but a syringe works well if you have a good one.) I kept him on a heating pad with a beach towel wrapped around it at a low-medium heat. And maybe once a day when I could sit there with him I'd turn the heat higher for a few minutes. You also have to stimulate their "parts" to make them go potty.. And make sure to keep their face and little booties clean (mine always made a mess of the milk). Other than that just make sure they eat every couple of hours. In a couple weeks though you can probably increase the time between feedings. But right now at such a young age, it has to be every 2 hours or they wont make it. I wish you a lot of luck with this. The hardest part for me was the weaning process. But I'm sure you'll do fine. My little Moose man is my pride and joy and all those hours staying up to make sure he was okay and to feed him was totally worth it because he's such a sweet, goofy little degu.  |
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Post by dyzired on Mar 11, 2012 12:49:53 GMT
And keep us updated on whats going on!  |
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Post by saylor on Mar 12, 2012 22:09:15 GMT
okay! so, after a sleepless weekend, both of them are doing really well! we worked out the drinking problem- the rubber cap thing we were using kept kind of closing up, so it has a bigger hole now, and both of them are eating- a lot. in fact, topsy's being fed right now (she has a little bit to eat, then a little nap, then more to eat) and she's almost finished an entire syringe, which is awesome because she needs all the food she can get in her to make sure she gets big and strong. hopefully her eyes should open, which is her main problem, because she'll occasionally try to go for a walk and almost fall off my hand. we've been helping them poop after every meal, and turvey seems to be capable of going by himself. topsy is a little, too, so i occasionally have to clean them up when they're having cuddles, but she needs more help. her eyes still aren't open, but other than that she's looking a lot more like a degu and less skinny-thing with a big head. turvey just looks like a mini-me of his dad, but less fuzzy. we're keeping them in a nest on top of a hot water bottle- there's two pieces of towel on the bottom of the box it's in, and they have a little sock sleeping bag-type thing that keeps them very cosy and happy. the only problems we've had are their little arguments about who gets to chew each other's ears and me not getting much sleep! i've been setting alarms on my phone, so each two hours they get a feed and a change of hot water. i'm also lucky in that they don't seem to want to eat much at night, just a few mouthfuls and they want to get back to sleep (even turvey, and he's a greedyguts) so it's not time consuming. also, dad and auntie are behaving better today, and are coming out for cuddles. they've been meeting the littles regularly, and they've behaved each time. i'm gonna call the vet to ask how much neutering will cost me, and i'm babysitting on wednesday (my parents'll look after the littles) so i'll hopefully have enough by next week to get him snipped so he can go back to having proper company and cuddles. and here's a photo of the little ones sleeping! Attachments:
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Post by dyzired on Mar 12, 2012 23:12:55 GMT
Yayyy! Im so happy to hear they made it through the weekend I wish the best for topsey and turvey. Keep up the hard work and dedication and I think you'll have two very sweet and healthy goos in no time! |
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Post by saylor on Mar 13, 2012 1:02:57 GMT
i'm really proud of them for it, they're little troopers any tips on weaning? topsy's not there yet, but turvey likes chewing on things, so i think he'll be ready to eat proper food soon. also, i let auntie in with them, and she cuddled them up underneath her for a minute. dad wasn't as delicate, but i think he's either blind or not very good at seeing, so he can be excused. |
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Post by dyzired on Mar 13, 2012 1:50:44 GMT
I weaned my boy at 5 weeks old. And the way I did it was I got loads of treats out and let him start snacking away and I also left degu pellets in his cage. When I saw he was eating them regularly.. I started watering down his milk...just slightly at first.. And after a couple days added more water (when I saw he was fine) and i kept doing that and eventually he was weaned. I kept my eye on him for a couple more weeks before I was certain he was perfectly fine I had another pair of degus about 2 yrs ago though.. And I unfortunately lost them during the weaning process. So be sure to be very careful during this time. And don't wean them too early! I think ull be able to wean them sooner than a mommy goo would normally wean her babies.. But still... I'd wait until they're maybe 4-5 weeks to start the process and for the little one that's not so strong, be very careful with her |
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Post by saylor on Mar 13, 2012 9:56:15 GMT
yeah, i'm planning to. turvey's already nibbling things, as i said (he was trying to eat some dried dandelion the other day) so he'll probably be easier to wean. he's also started climbing- i had to put the into a box with higher sides because he could get out of the other one! he worked that out at 3.30 last night, so that was tiring. topsy's still got her eyes closed as far as i know, but she's also eager to go for little wobbles around on my bed and try to climb the sides. i think she's trying to be like her big brother |
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Post by listracian on Mar 13, 2012 11:00:50 GMT
Just a tip I may have missed but try not to feed them at exactly the same time every day. It will help when weaning if they aren't being fed at the same time because they will then learn not to expect the food at the same time each day. Oats can be useful with weaning as well I believe they are normally weaned at around 3 weeks, it didn't take the litters I had long anyway and if they are already interested in food its pretty good |
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 13, 2012 14:28:40 GMT
I think weaning sometimes depends on the mother . . . with out degus, Pumpkin probably started to wean her pups about the fourth week, which is when they started trying to sneak in on Apricot to suckle . . . and she would let them too. Apricot is still nursing the pups, actually whoever comes, and I've been wondering when she will start chasing them away. I think in the case of hand rearing, especially as your two are so tiny, you may need to take them up to the four week mark. The little girl may need it longer. Pups often start sampling out solid foods as early as four days old, so you need to have solid foods available to them to eat. That would be any of the foods that you offer to your older degus.
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Post by saylor on Mar 15, 2012 23:14:44 GMT
quick update: topsy's eyes are slowly opening. turvey is getting more possessive over his sister, and keeps cuddling her, grooming her and (i think) trying to carry her about. topsy also follows him about, it's very cute. they sleep with turvey cuddling her, and they're eating more in the day and way less at night.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 16, 2012 4:33:58 GMT
Wonderful news! Do you still have them separate from their Dad and Aunt?
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Post by saylor on Mar 18, 2012 13:05:29 GMT
topsy died this morning. she was fine at 8, but when we checked them at 9, she was gone.
turvey's still separate, but i'm gonna start letting auntie and dad cuddle him more. he needs company.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 19, 2012 2:35:16 GMT
I am deeply sorry to hear this. You must be feeling very sad over her loss. She was so tiny, helping her to have enough calories would be very difficult I think. Poor sweet little Topsy. I am very sorry for your loss, Saylor! It's been a very sad day.
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Post by dyzired on Mar 25, 2012 12:21:04 GMT
I'm so sorry for your loss :/ . You did an amazing job at keeping her this long. But sometimes they're just too tiny and fragile. Best of luck with the other little one. Keep us updated   |
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