In need of URGENT advice...

[vicky12]

Hey everyone!

I'm really sorry to jump straight into the health section without posting in the meet and greet and beginners areas. It's just I'm getting desperate for help now and it seems that even when it comes to vets there is nowhere to turn!

I am a new Degu owner and so far have had a rocky start to Degu ownership so would greatly appreciate any advice that any other owners can give me.

A breif explanation on how I've got here...

My partner and I fell in love with Degus when we were in Pets at Home one day buying treats for my budgie. I'd never seen or heard of them before but their interest in the people the other side of the cage was fantastic. Their little noses poked out at me and I couldn't help but do some research and planned to take them home!

A few nights later I returned and bought all the stuff that I'd need and created this:



Later that evening I went and picked up my two little boys Diego & Sid



Right... that was 3 months ago and I couldn't be more obsessed with them. They are the only pet that I could literally sit for hours and watch as they're so amusing and when they fall asleep together it's SO adorable. They each have their own personality and after a while you really get to know them which I love.

Anyway me and my fiance went on holiday and when we returned we were told that Sid had been taken to the vet and had been kept in for the last 3 nights!

I was told that he had ballooned and was barely moving and that if he wouldn't have lasted another few hours. The vets at Pets at Home took him in and were giving him medication. I returned from holiday and they finally let me take him home after he'd been there for 5 days. The vet couldn't actually explain to me what was wrong with him and just said he had lots of gas and that she had never seen it occur in a Degu, only a rabbit. His immune system took a knock and he also got an eye infection whilst at the vet. They said it may be due to them being given too many degu nuggets (as instructed on the back of their food) when I stated that the vet said "they are trying to sell their product" and was advised lots of hay and 1tsp per day each of nuggets.

I left there with a poorly Degu with a sticky eye that was sneezing occasionally. I also was given antibiotics, eye cream and a paste all to be given to him twice daily.

A week later, he stayed his regular size and got back to his usual self although his eye hadn't cleared up and he had started sneezing more frequently. I got given a stronger antibiotic to give him. The sneezing seems to have gotten better and his eye is now open, still a little gooey, but open nonetheless.

I finally felt like I had my little pair back again and after a small dominance struggle when they were reunited the first time, they were back to normal .

Then... Valentines evening we arrived home and my partner called me and said I had better take a look at them. They were both perfectly fine the previous day but now they were in the nesting box curled up together. I rustled the food bag (usually they leap at me when I do this) and I called out to them but nothing. At first I thought Sid had passed away and Diego was huddled up to him but then they were coaxed out.

I couldn't even look at them as they dragged themselves out of the box to the cage door. They BOTH were fully fluffed up (even around the face) with their eyes half shut. I couldn't help but burst into tears, it was really hard to see them struggle. My OH picked them up and they weren't even moving in his hand they were also freezing cold.

I rushed them to Pets at Home and told them I had no idea what was wrong and please take them (8pm! they were closed). They told me they couldn't guarantee anything. The next morning I rung and was told that they were okay although one seemed brighter than the other, they didn't tell me what the problem was.
At the end of the day when I called they said they didn't want to release them yet and they've had them another night.

That brings me to today...

I called this afternoon and have been told that Diego is fine and jumping around as usual but Sid's condition has worsened (I can't see how I wasn't told this yesterday) the small furries vet came on the phone and told me that he was still freezing and has had both of his eyes closed all day. She said it might be a genetic liver problem but how can this be if they both had identical symptoms and one is now fine!? They now have Sid on a heat pad and are giving him fluids but she told me not to have my hopes up as she doesn't think he'll make it.

I am heartbroken, as he has been poorly previously I've been looking after him with meds etc very closely and I'm really sad that he might not pull through.

The only thing I can't understand is what on earth is wrong with them and why can't they explain anything to me!?

Info you might need:

- I changed the bedding in the photo to Carefresh shortly after buying the Degus.
- I had them fed on a diet of Hay and 10g of Degu nuggets each daily with some rolled grass and the odd yoghurt drop as a treat on occasion. The vet then advised that this may be too much (trying to sell the product) and said a tsp each of the nuggets and just hay. So that is what I've been feeding them daily for the last 3 weeks.
- Only wood in the cage has been toys bought from P@H.
- Cage cleaned weekly and regular sandbaths (have held off on these for a while with Sid as don't want to get dust in his gooey eye).

I love these two to bits and I'm desperate to be the best owner I can be but it just seems that I'm being misguided. I have explained exactly how I've looked after them and know that I'm doing my best for them so please if anyone sees that I'm doing something wrong then let me know.

Can anyone shed any light on what's wrong with my Degu's or suggest anything I can ask the vet to help me? I'm really scared that I might only get one back .

Thanks so much if you've stuck through my essay!

Vicky.

[fred]

Hi Vicky,

the first advice would be, take them to a real vet as soon as you possibly can!! I am sorry to put it so bluntly, but what you reported indicates very strongly that she hasn't a clue what she is doing.

I don't think any of use here can speculate what we may be wrong with your boys.

How old are they? Can you weigh how much the tsp of nuggets actually is?

[vicky12]

Thanks for your advice Fred, I appreciate you taking the time to read and reply.

That's the first thing I've done this afternoon, I've located a vet noo far from home who deal with degus/chinchillas.

The only problem with that being that they are currently at pets at home and once again I'm waiting for a call to tell me whether I can pick them up. The receptionist at the new vet said they'd need to be back in my care to book an appointment up for as soon as possible.

They were apparently 12 weeks old when I bought them at Pets at Home so that would make them 6 months old now. I am unable to weigh the tsp of nuggets at present as I am work however I do know that it works out at around 10 nuggets each. I always even it out so that they get the same amount.

I have a horrible suspicion that the vet has used the bloating which she wasn't too sure on (cause wise) as a reason to tell me to cut down their food and really it was unrelated and now I'm underfeeding them? I guess it's just speculation at the moment, just very concerning.

The only other thing I can see that was different is that they both ate an entire weaved willow ball on one of their toys. This however was sold as degu safe by P@H and was in the cage they were being kept in when they were brought home with me so I bought one as a familiar item. Probably unrelated though.

As soon as I get them back (hopefully BOTH of them) I'll get them down to the other vet.

[fred]

10 nuggets are about 2.5g Through no fault of your own, it seems that your boys have not been fed properly.

It has to be your own judgement, but maybe you have to consider to get them away from P@H whatever they tell you. Time seems to be of the essence.

I keep my fingers crossed, please keep us updated.

[Deleted]

So sorry to hear about your degus, it's always awful when an animal gets sick
I am also keeping my fingers crossed that Sid will get through this.
I agree that it sounds like this P@H vet doesn't know what she's doing. Only a teaspoon of nuggets each is very little indeed.
Willow is a degu-safe wood, so I don't think that could have caused this either. I don't think any of this is your fault -
you've just had really bad luck.

Keep us posted, best of luck to you and your degus!

[deguconvert]

Oh Honey!! I hope that you are able to get them back . . . I can see no reason why they would refuse to allow you to pick them up and leave with them. As Fred has said, you need to get them to the other vet asap. I do believe that you have been much misguided by the vet of P@H and the sooner you can get them in alternate Vet care the better for you and for them. While you are out and about, pick up some porridge oats for them. These are easy to diagest, will provide them with dense calories and nutrients, and will give their bodies something to grow on and hopefully heal on. Don't give these instead of the nuggets, but along with the nuggets. Sunflower seeds, millet seeds, and herbs (dry is probably better at this time) such as dill, rosemary, basil, and oregano will also be excellent for them.

[vicky12]

Thanks, the replies are much appreciated.

I have an update from P@H and feel that this is getting more ridiculous by the moment!

Thankfully Sid is still alive but they have said he is quite unresponsive and they are still unsure of how he will fare. In addition to this they've told me that now BOTH of them have eye infections.

It gets worse when they tell me it could be an issue with their back teeth and want to gas them both tomorrow at an extra cost of £50.00. My problem with this is that when Sid had previous trouble his back teeth were checked whilst I waited and they said he was cooperative and they didn't need to gas him. So my question is - Diego is now fine apart from the eye infection so his teeth must be fine and Sids teeth have already been checked so why on earth would it be their teeth?

I'm starting to think this all revolves around profit and if they're the ones who have made me underfeed them then I'm not happy to leave them in their care. I've phoned another vet who is happy to see them however I just need to wait for a call back from them to see if I can transfer them over tonight.

I don't want the poor little things to have unnecessary treatment especially when they haven't actually decided what's wrong with them yet!

[fred]

The teeth are definitely something that needs checking. However, they would be very young for this and some of the history wouldn't seem to fit.

Checking a young degus' teeth properly without putting him under and the owner assisting? I do have my problems believing this.

I am not an expert in any way, but I wonder whether stabilizing him (keeping him warm and hydrated, trying to get him to eat some energy-rich food, antibiotics) shouldn't be achieved before his teeth are examined.

If they don't want to hand him over, I would insist on an explanation how the move to another vet could worsen his condition.

[abirose]

By the sounds of things I feel that the p@h vet seems very unsure and is just going off a hunch and as horrid as it sounds, may be trying to get as much money from you as possible .Have your goo's had a lot of fresh veg/fruit? Have they had any diarreah? Were they eating fine before they got poorly?

I think they could do with a blood test I don't have experience of this myself but could this be a symptom of diabetes? It may explain the lethergy and the attack on the immune system through the eye infection. The carefresh is fine and although you have been misguided as to how much food to give, the goos would still have had the hay to eat. I'm wondering about the vitamin c as the nuggets are designed to give the daily amounts of vitamin c so could there be a deficiency?

I think you need to get a professional opinion if it were me I would ask the vet to check the blood.

You need to make sure there hydrated if you can see them gently pinch some of their skin, if it quickly goes back they are hydrated if not they may benefit from a drip.

[Ady]

Feb 16, 2012 18:42:41 GMT vicky12 said:

why on earth would it be their teeth?

If the roots of back molars are overgrown, they would create pressure in the eye area and cause eye watering and sneezing. However I don't think that would cause him to be so poorly so quick. (Also aren't the overgrown roots visible on x-ray only? -I could be wrong here).
Is the vet at P@H just general small animal vet (rabbit, rat...) or is he certified small mammals one? Anyway, taking him to exotic vet specialist is the best decision, I just don't understand why P@H wouldn't let you take him there already.

Also I don't understand why is it always you who has to call them. I mean you phoned them and they told you that he probably won't make it, if they thought so, shouldn't they called you first thing and offer you to come to see him?

[fred]

Feb 16, 2012 20:07:38 GMT Ady said:

If the roots of back molars are overgrown, they would create pressure in the eye area and cause eye watering and sneezing. However I don't think that would cause him to be so poorly so quick. (Also aren't the overgrown roots visible on x-ray only? -I could be wrong here).

You are right, the kind of tooth problems that can cause eye watering and sneezing could only be detected by X-rays. I presumed that was what the £ 50 would be for. The question is what they "checked" the last time??

[vicky12]

I was aware that Degu's have issues with their back teeth causing the sneezing etc as before buying the little fellas I tried my best to read everything I could out there on them. Also with Sid being ill previously I read alot of other peoples posts regarding health issues.

So with that said when the vet said she wanted to check Sids back teeth I was more than happy for her to do so. She said if he doesn't let them she may have to gas him to get a better look. After 5 mins out the back she came and told me that he was cooperative and that his teeth were perfectly fine which is what she expected as he's still young.

This is why I am curious as to why they'd need to gas them both when Sids teeth were checked only 2-3 weeks ago. Also if Diego is now fine apart from the eye infection why would he need gassing to have his teeth checked? I hope I am making sense.

To answer your other questions:

- No they haven't had any fresh veg/fruit as when they got sick I was looking into what could be given to them. I had been giving them a little of a dried mix called 'Herbal Delight' and they also had a bit of dried broccoli. They were both eating and drinking perfectly normally and didn't have any diarreah.

- The vet told me she is the 'small furries' vet for the P@H local area.

- It's not that they wouldn't let me take them to another vet, I haven't actually asked them to give me them back for a transfer to another vet yet as I hadn't found anywhere experienced enough.

- As far as them phoning goes it's been an absolute nightmare. In fact they haven't called me once! Each time I'm promised a callback I've had to ring them and every morning I have called at 9am to get an update.

Unfortunately the new vet didn't call me back last night in time to collect the goo's from P@H and take them over. I'm waiting on a call from the new vet until I can confirm that they're okay to be transferred and treated immediately but so far no luck so they are still at P@H.

I can only hope that little Sid made it through the night and will be calling at 9am when they open to get an update. Will post up as soon as I have any information.

Thanks guys & girls.

[mel]

Is there any chance that when you were on holiday whoever was looking after them fed them something they shouldn't have? A lot of people aren't aware of what degus should and shouldn't eat .
I would steer clear of any kind of anaesthetic whilst Sid is so poorly as that might just tip him over the edge. Has a blood test been done? If not then this should be something that's carried out asap as it will highlight what the problem is instead of just shooting in the dark as it sounds like the P&H vet has been doing!

Good luck!

[vicky12]

I am 100% confident that they were cared for perfectly whilst I was away on holiday (returned 28th Jan) Sids health was starting to turn around and he looked like he was only dealing with the eye infection. All seemed back to normal until Valentines Day when I came home to find the two of them all huddled, cold and not moving much.

Unfortunately the new vet has now decided that whilst they deal with rodents they haven't the best experience so think I should stay where the species are known.

I had to call P@H this morning to be told they're both still alive which is good news however Sid is still struggling. They've told me they're going to "gas them both down" and then call me later. A blood test hasn't been mentioned at all so far medically they've just told me they are on fluids and cream for the eye infection and that Sid is on a heat pad. I am worried about the gas though if Sid isn't doing too well.

It's awful knowing they're unwell, just want everything to go back to normal now! Thank goodness for this site otherwise I'd probably think I was going mad and you can't talk to anyone and get advice as all you get when you say what they are is "What are they, never heard of them".

Thanks again.

[fred]

Quick question first: where do you live? Perhaps someone knows a vet in you area.

[amie]

I don't know where you're from, but just incase you're anywhere near Birmingham, there's a vet called Marie Kubiak at Manor vets in Edgebaston www.manorvets.co.uk/edgbaston/ She's an exotic vet and is EXCELLENT with anything from degus, rats, birds, snakes etc. This woman really knows her stuff and she's the only vet I'd trust with my degus and rats.

There's also another exotic vet there called Toby and although I've never used him, Marie says he's excellent too. Only reason I don't use Toby is because I'm reluctant to switch from Marie now. I'm sure he's great though. They are a very pricey vet, but well worth it as your animals are in great hands there, rather than a vet working off guess work, they know what they're doing. I wouldn't recommend them otherwise.

Good luck to you and your boys.

[vicky12]

Fred/Amie - I'm in Essex and unfortunately not near Birmingham.

I have been fortunate to find an exotic vets not far from home and they have said they are very experienced with Degus. I can tell these guys are better as they said before they see them they need a case file from P@H which shows me that they're dedicated to helping my two.

Only problem I have now is I have (once again) had to call for an update and have been told the vet will call in half an hour. The nurse said Diego is fine but Sid is not doing well at all, she also mentioned one of them had their teeth checked (v.confusing I know!). I couldn't help but mention that nobody had actually told me what was wrong with them and the nurse said I will have to wait for the call.

Now it's the weekend so I won't be able to take them directly to the new vet. I'm pretty much stuck as I am not confident to take them home when they're unwell but want them to get the best care.

It's a nightmare. Will post back when the vet calls.

[abirose]

You might have to get nasty with them, I'm feeling angry on your behalf! You should tell them that your prepared to take it further if they have not had justifiable reasons to perform the treatments that they have (or if they have been repeated unnecessarily) and that their communication has been ridiculous. I suggest you write down everything that they have told you, the procedures they have done and the amount of times they have not given you clear responses or failed to get back in touch and write a strongly worded letter to head office.

They are playing with your emotions and seem to be going off hunches with regards to treatment.

[fred]

Feb 17, 2012 17:48:48 GMT abirose said:

You might have to get nasty with them, I'm feeling angry on your behalf! You should tell them that your prepared to take it further if they have not had justifiable reasons to perform the treatments that they have (or if they have been repeated unnecessarily) and that their communication has been ridiculous. I suggest you write down everything that they have told you, the procedures they have done and the amount of times they have not given you clear responses or failed to get back in touch and write a strongly worded letter to head office.

I second that. I would also ask them for the case file straight away, so that they know your patience has come to an absolute end.

[moletteuk]

Is the PAH vets at the shop? Perhaps you could go in tomorrow and try to sort things out with what is going on, whose teeth have been checked by what method and what else they have done. It might help you to gauge how well they are looking after them and how much they know, and I'm sure your degus would love to see you as much as you would like to see them.
It can be very difficult to find out what is wrong with a degu. Once teeth and urine have been checked, you are usually left with giving fluids and antibiotics. Given that it seems things started with bloat, I think some Oxbow Critical Care could really help, it stimulates appetite and sorts out the guts to get them functioning properly again, the vet should be able to provide it.