Single Male Degu- Problems

[ukcaveman]

My wife adopted a single male degu who was around 4 months old around 5 months ago.

He was previously with another male and female degu. We were told that the two males were split up for fighting with both of them returned for adoption.

We have found that he has become very wild, cannot handle him making day to day activities such as cleaning vety difficult, My wife has told me that he bites his feet and the wire cage - both behaviours may be due to boredom. We never let him out as we'd never get him back in the cage - we have pcs, tv, hi fi etc and knowing how destructive they are are not prepared to risk him going Awol.

We are not dure what to do, We only have 1 cage and a small house so to obtain another male for them to just fight and having to split them up wed have no where to put degu 2.

Please any advice - were in Bucks UK and would love to talk to fellow degu owners in our area to share experiences.

Many thanks

[Cherpi]

If the cage is big enough make a wire mesh in the middle and introduce them like that, if they end up hating each other then just keep the mesh there.

[ukcaveman]

Cage is 3 levels, but would be difficult to split.

The assistant in the shop did indicate that he should be kept alone. For a "social" animal its a harsh punishment I'd imagine.

Reading the posts here fighting seems normal...

[Cherpi]

unless it's really bad it is, they need to find dominance. Fighting is the only way! But if they're drawing a load of blood then he should be on his own I'm afraid.

[smux]

Simplest answer...return him to where you adopted him from. It may seem like a bad choice but if you can't manage him it really is the best option for him and you.

Next simplest answer...Get him a mate...if you get him a baby then the chances of him fighting with the baby are very low but the chance is there. Also, he may fight with his mate once they're both a bit older. He is currently going through puberty if your age is right (9 months) and he'll be going through it for the next 4 months or so. During this time they can be a bit like human teens, moody and hard to gauge what they're going to do.

You NEED to let him out, but you also need to secure your electricals first...cardboard boxes opened out can serve as a barrier between degu and expensive items although they do tend to find their way around it unless you secure it properly. If you can't let him out in the front room then maybe a hallway or somewhere would be better. Some people also make a playpen for their degus, although I've always found they prefer as much freedom as possible although they WILL take advantage if given half a chance.

What you need to do first is train him to climb onto your hand, this is covered in training and introductions and also on degutopia...once he trusts you and will climb onto your hand and/or shoulders then transferring him to a safe area for playing is a simple matter.

Saying all that, if he was with a male and female degu and they split the males up, I hope you got them from a reputable person because NO-ONE but long-time degu owners would ever keep males and females together...of course they fought, it was over the female.

Biting the cage bars is usually a sign of boredom, biting the hair on their paws is a sign of anxiety or worry (his hair will grow back on his paws, but he has to stop biting them first)...he needs a release, whether it's exercise (does he have a wheel that's big enough for him to use? It's no replacement for time out of the cage but it'd help) or a mate to play with in or out of the cage, he needs something.

My honest opinion is give him back up for adoption. If you REALLY love him and can't bear to let him go (I'm sure he's grown on you after 5 months), you might be able to deal with these problems but you are going to have a long hard road ahead of you.

Edit: Don't return him to where you got him from...the shop owner's an idiot (Any chance it's Pets@Home? :-)) and should be reported to the RSPCA...I'm sure if you decide to rehome him there are other ways of finding him the perfect home, like our adoption section.

[ukcaveman]

i wonder if the previous owner over reacted when he was initially split up not appreciating they fight.

Am i right in saying that patience and perseverence with bribery of food are the only way we can gain trust for us to handle him?

[ukcaveman]

yes pets at home,,,,,and yes has grown on us

[smux]

Pretty much, yes. Spend time with him, sit in the room nearby the cage and talk to him for a little bit every day...doesn't matter what you say, just let him know whatever, he's listening to the sound of your voice and its inflections so he can recognise you by voice. If you ever talk differently to that to him, he'll know it means something (so if you talk angrily when he's been naughty, for instance) and eventually he'll work out what it means.

Can you put your finger through the mesh safely or does he bite you? If you haven't tried, don't...you don't want to find out the hard way :-)
Lone degus tend to like a tickle under the arms. Open the cage and move your hand slowly towards him, keeping it low so it doesn't scare him. Stop a few inches short of him and let him sniff you if he wants to. Start by tickling him on the side of his face, just under his jaw, then move down under his arm...he should raise his arm if he trusts you or likes it (he's known you for 5 months, he should trust you at least a little, he knows you feed him :-)). You can move from here to his middle and he may do a superman (both arms raised and he's standing on his hind legs...like he's flying like superman) but make sure you're gentle with his middle as it's his "soft spot" and degus generally only ever allow access to those they really trust.

If the tickle doesn't work, don't worry...you'll gain his trust better over time. Follow the guides for training him to be more trusting of you, and be aware that it really can be a long and arduous process but the results are worth it.

And, as I am sure you know already, degus ARE social animals and there are very few cases where they would be better off alone. In the wild degus are never alone, they always live in huge groups...but in the wild YOUR degu would be dead because he'd not get on with the group and either be attacked by them or he's go off on his own and be caught by a predator or just die through loneliness (well, not directly loneliness, but you get my jist...depression is an issue for lone degus). This is why so many degu owners harp on about degus needing to be kept in pairs or higher...it's total bull to generalise about all degus like that, to be honest, but for the most part it is true.

Edit to respond to P@H post: We've heard many MANY bad stories about P@H and their poorly trained staff, and many of us have boycotted their stores (for the most part anyway...I sometimes pop in to get the odd treat I can't get elsewhere but where I might have spent £100 there I now spend less than £10 :-))...there's places on ebay that are cheaper, not to mention easier :-)

[ukcaveman]

tbh it was an assistant at our local p@h store who said she kept degus and who gave me this link earlier today - not the store we bought him from.

[smux]

There's probably one politician in the house of commons who has our interests at heart and could do a good job of running this country...his or her reputation is tarnished by every single other one of them, and he or she has no chance of actually getting to run the country.

That P@H assistant is the politician...trust me, she is in the minority, she probably knows more about degus than their in-store vet (if they have one). She is also possibly someone you could turn to for advice although I am not insinuating you are not welcome to ask advice here...she's local, she might be able to help...at the very least ask her if she has an account here and if she does then give her your account name so she can message you when not at work...that way she'd not be governed by whatever rules P@H might have about staff and customers.

Perhaps you could somehow get him into a carry box or something and take him to see her? I'd probably ask her if that was alright first, just to be sure...if she's been a degu owner for a while, she might have the magic touch (a mixture of non-threatening manner and confidence of iron...confidence is very important to a degu, if they sense you're not going to confidently hold them they'll get anxious and not want to get on your hand) and be able to give him some attention and perhaps give you some pointers. She will also be able to see how you are with him, and get a better idea of any problems than we could over the forum.

[nickymills30]

i;ve got to agree with smux, Please don't return him to P@H's.

The other option you've got is, if you can find a rescue, near you, that has boys, and are willing to try and pair yours up with one of theirs? At least that way, if they can't pair him, you'll still only have your boy, and not have to worry about re-homing another. This is what has been done, with my rescue, with male guinea pigs, and has worked quite well.

Don't give up on him. I took a 'male' goo in, from P@H's, who'd been returned twice, to the store, for being aggressive with other male goos and even his new owners. It turned out he was infact a she! She is such a sweet little girl, and is in the process of being introduced to another female.

good luck, and ask as many questions as you want, even if you think they are silly questions, we won't xxx

[ukcaveman]

Hi Nicky, thanks for that- he is definately a he...and the adoption idea is one i had thought over in my mind.....i suspect that the previous owner was not familiar with degu behaviour and not prepared to learn..

[deguconvert]

One thing about a degu that has been alone a long time, he can become a little unbalanced emotionally and socially. They seem to lose their ability to interact reasonably out a strong sense of isolation, and this could be what you are seeing with him. However, there are some degus that are so shy and terrified of humans that they actively resist any attempts to grow a bond of trust with them. Your little guy may have experienced this with his first owner, and in the months since you have been unable to change his mind. Not your fault!! You likely wouldn't be told of any struggles in this area, and so would have been fighting a battle you knew nothing about.

Let me give you a personal experience. We have three boys, two we bought to be companions to our lone degu after his brother died in an accident. The two we bought were being kept in the back of a pet store, removed from all human contact, and in a cage suitable only for very small mice. One of the boys only had half his tail (Snug). There is a long story of trying to get these three past the terrible 6-12 month stage, bonded as a group, and settled into a cage large enough to keep them happy, but the part that pertains to you, is the trial of getting Snug hand trained.

Snug and his brother were 13 weeks old when we brought them home. His bro was out going and very quickly adjusted to the idea of pleasant interacting with humans. Snug did not!! Because of the loss of his tail, while being poorly handled by a staff member at the store, Snug had a strong distrust of human hands. Degus have excellent memories and are very inclined to hold grudges, so our hands were just as offensive to him as the "hands that took his tail." Snug became a vicious biter . . . which earned him the name of Jaws for several months. BUT Snug met his match in me, and I decided that I was going to win this little goo over come lakes of fire or high water. SO! Three times daily, I went to the cage, opened the door, talking and cooing, and holding treats on the palm of my hand. It took at least a month before he took a treat from my hand for the first time. Not without a bite on the way past. OUCH. Another month before he rested his paws to sit and eat at my hand, but if I moved, he would bite me and then run. Then he began to sit on my hand, but would bite me and run if I moved. Then he would let me stoke his side while he ate, but bit if I moved my hand toward the door of the cage. Then he would stay while I moved my hand through the door, but bit if I moved more than say 10 cm from the door. It was four months of nasty painful bites at least 3 times a week, with slightly less painful bites at least daily. Then I went my first full week without a bite!! Then two, three, and four weeks, and I've been bite free since. All in all, it took me 5 months of daily intense training to bring Snug out of the Jaws stage and fully into his given name, Snuggabug. I don't think I have EVER been so stubbornly committed to an outcome in my life! I was OBSCESSCED really. Anyway, he is a true little gem now, and these days if anyone is going to come out for some love and cuddles, it's Snug!

It took lots of time and lots of treats, but it was accomplished. Now finding his irresistable treat will give you the perfect ammunition for helping to win him over. Read through this list deguworld.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=food&action=display&thread=5408 and start trying things out. You will find something he just can't ignore. When you do, start first with putting it in the cage through the door you would most like him to learn to come to, and just leave it on the floor of the cage. Then walk away for a bit. Check to see that it is gone (make sure the treat isn't larger in size than your pinky finger nail). A short time later repeat. Do this for a few days, then start staying near the cage. Once he is ignoring you to eat the treat, stay beside the cage and repeat. Once he is ignoring you, open the door and put your hand in with the treat on it. Stay still, and repeat until he is not bothered by you being there. Once you are here, you are well on your way to great and long lasting success!

Of course this is all up to you, and I'll not judge you a bit if this is just more than you want to tackle. If you need help, ask us, if you just need to unload about things, unload here and we will completely understand, if you want personal advice, PM someone, and please let us know how you are doing.

[smux]

Hand training is important, but don't forget to make sure he really knows you well. If you have talked to him often in the past 5 months then ignore this and go with the hand training as DC suggests, but if you feel he would do well to recognise you better (for instance, if you work long hours most days or have other commitments which mean you don't give him that much interaction) then as I said in reply #7 (about talking to him so he gets used to the sound of your voice, the first sentence...even for 10-15 minutes before bedtime will make a difference) will be your best starting point.

I am posting this despite assuming you are probably not going to need to do this step, it's always best to be sure :-)