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Post by w8152 on Dec 8, 2010 20:42:42 GMT
Cleaning the little sods out as usual. Sam and Dean first, done with a little help and bickering between them as per usual. Nothing special there...
Go to clean out Gray and Nugget, Nugget comes out onto Mel and down to the floor, Gray looks annoyed, can only imagine because we smell of Sam and Dean. In an effort to smell like him i put my hands about 6" away from Gray and rub them on the sawdust/hay in his cage.
He lunged at me and bit the top of my index finger. Was nowhere near him and my hands moving away from him so yet again he did his usual trick of cowardly back biting almost completely unprovoked like he did to Sam when we tried to introduce them, Sam is obviously quicker and a better fighter than me i guess.
Any ideas other than the scent as to why he would be this bad with me considering he has been the most friendly of all of them to be handled, completely out of character for him really.
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Post by arumanii on Dec 8, 2010 21:02:51 GMT
I think u've hit the nail on the head with scent I'm afraid.
Only other thing that'd come to mind was if he was guarding a nest (but that's pretty much ruled out I'm thinkin!)
Tho it will probably be unpopular advice... have you tried pinning him when he does it and really making it clear that u wont accept that kind of behaviour however your hand smells?
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Post by Bexi87 on Dec 8, 2010 21:13:35 GMT
Hmm..could it be that he is trying to protect his territory from the 'invader', ie the scent of the others on your hand?
Maybe wash your hands inbetween cages?
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Post by smux on Dec 8, 2010 21:19:21 GMT
He's lucky you're the one looking after him and it's not me, because he'd be punished severely for that. Damien got me badly on my finger during a fight between him and Loki, probably trying to go for Loki, and I got Loki out of the cage and into the top and proceeded to tell Damien off with the whole works; Dominance hold, talking angrily right at him (not loudly, just angrily, to scare him), negative feedback (calling him a bad boy, emphasising the word "bad" and making it sound bad), tapping the nose...and no kiss or cuddle afterwards, he went straight back into the cage then I took care of the bite (which, BTW, was a bad gusher...seems he got his top tooth fairly far in and the bottom tooth hit the side and didn't go in)...Once I was TCPed and plastered, I came back and gave him a little nice attention to let him know he was still loved :-)
It doesn't matter WHAT the reason they attacked was, the fact is they attacked and for that they get a response. Obviously I agree with arumanii here. Eventually they will learn that attacking for that reason is wrong, or will become a nervous wreck from all the punishments they receive. I very rarely have to do this with any of them, luckily...and Damien seems to be the one who usually needs it :-P
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Post by w8152 on Dec 9, 2010 11:44:14 GMT
oh he knows he's in the doghouse, no treats, no playtime, no cuddles. NOTHING. he sat sulking for the rest of the and was this morning when i left for work.
I would pin him but judging by his behaviour when he bites it wouldve resulted in more bites and probably a trip to A&E, i'm going to have a little "chat" with him tonight and see how he behaves. Nugget ran and hid when it happened, didnt see him for 10 minutes and he was out... Gray shrank away when i yelled, hell yes i yelled. bounced off the finger bone with his lower teeth, i swear he aims!
Dingle, yeah normally i wouldnt have been that bad scent wise but had to do it by hand, was habit just carrying on regardless. he's never shown that sort of reaction before to it. got complacant and this is the result.
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 10, 2010 0:29:49 GMT
Massive OUCH! So sorry you've been skewered again.
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Post by w8152 on Dec 10, 2010 14:17:37 GMT
i'm serious when i say i'm investigating vets that perform degu nuetering, lets see how aggressive and terrotorial he can get with no nuts!
long term i want him to get along with Sam and Dean aswell as Nugget so this is the first step, specially considering he is getting overly bullying towards Nugget.
add:
Just got off the phone with GWR Refferals and they have experience with and agreed that its possible to do it in a day for £70-80.
Looks like my new years present to myself is getting him done!
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 10, 2010 15:48:31 GMT
Just to be sure that you are aware, degus under a year of age shouldn't be neutered as it can seriously disrupt their development without the testosterone. That said, it is your right to decide when such a thing should be done. Whatever you do, I hope it all goes well, and that Gray becomes a fine citizen and a contributor to the peace in your home! ;D
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Post by w8152 on Dec 10, 2010 15:58:15 GMT
yeah, i wont be persuing it until after new year and we got him around feb time, he was around 4 months old when we adopted him so Jan/Feb time for his OP puts him over the year. Testosterone is not a problem for him, trust me. His development needs disrupting anyway, too blody clever for his own good if you ask me  He's in line for an attitude readjustment whether he likes it or not! |
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Post by smux on Dec 10, 2010 19:43:13 GMT
One other thing to remember, and that's the chance that he may not survive the treatment. It is a small possibility and you shouldn't be dissuaded from doing so by this fact, but make sure that first you are SURE you want to go through with it as it's the only option left and if it is make sure that secondly you have lots of fun times with him (however you can) in the weeks leading up to the operation so if the worst does happen then you have good memories and you know his last few weeks were fun.
Alternatively, take my advice and put this off until the middle of next year. If he's not even a year old then it is likely to be puberty that's got him in this state of mind...you may find he mellows out once the testosterone has stopped coursing through his veins so freely on its non-stop journey. By all means, if he does something else to warrant getting the snip in this time, book him in and have a "bye bye balls" party...but it's like punishing him for something that is probably out of his control.
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Post by w8152 on Dec 11, 2010 20:13:01 GMT
you are possibly right Smux, but he has been territorial since i got him in feburary time of this year to the point he starts fights whenever he is anywhere near anyone but Nugget. It wont be until 1st quarter 2011 so we'll see how he is. I know it sounds bad but if he didnt make it I'd know i was doing it to try and make it possible for them to all be together and Nugget would integrate with Sam and Dean with little or no fuss. I dont know how to quite explain how exactly this makes me feel and the reasoning i have so that it doesnt sound so cold. Right now i've investigated pricing and whats involved, until next year (probably Feb time) its not a possibility anyhow so there is time for him to "sort his attitude out" so i guess we'll see...
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Post by smux on Dec 11, 2010 20:18:57 GMT
If the problem really is territory in the cage, invade his territory as much as you can and don't let him claim any part of the cage as his. Eventually he will give up and share the cage with the others. Invade the cage with items, toys, yourself sometimes, don't relent, and obviously watch for him attacking. If he becomes a problem, do as Aru said and pin him to the floor and talk to him in an angry and loud tone (obviously not being too much louder, just make it seem loud)
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Post by w8152 on Dec 13, 2010 12:01:53 GMT
hehehe, all of this has been done and is being done more and more, trust me when i say i dont make this decision lightly. Also that its not completely made just yet.
I do appreciate the advice however and will gladly follow anything over and above what i am already doing.
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Post by smux on Dec 13, 2010 22:23:15 GMT
Do you have a spare cage? I don't remember for sure if you do, but if so then make use of it next time he gets territorial. Take the little sod out and plonk him right in the middle of the empty cage with nothing but hay (and if there's no hay, even better...nothing!) and tell him to claim as much as he likes because he'll stay there if he keeps at it. I know it's no use actually saying that, but it'll make you feel better, and it's the action and the way you talk to him that matters...I think he might get the picture eventually, but of course I'm not the one doing all this so it's easy for me to think these things up and explain them :-)
Personally (and I have done this although for different reasons) I would also cover the cage so he knows he's being punished with solitary confinement.
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Post by w8152 on Dec 14, 2010 9:52:34 GMT
yeah i have doen the spare cage covered before, was Sam though, all he did was pull the blanket off so he could watch the telly, little sod, I swear he just wanted a better view.
We shall see what occurs over the next couple of months and how he "adjusts".
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Post by smux on Dec 14, 2010 10:02:42 GMT
If they pull the cover off, find something (piece of wood?) that is larger in both directions than the cage and put it on top then cover that...this way they can't move the item on top and can't reach the cover :-P
If he needs any forced "adjustment" I can put him in with some of my lot...he'll go mad if he doesn't mend his ways, I promise you :-)
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