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Post by amie on Apr 8, 2011 0:08:24 GMT
I wasn't sure whether to post this in chat or behavior, so even though there's a bit of a ramble in here, I've posted in behavoir because that's mainly what this post is about So, yes, game over. I'm keeping the girls. I've grown very fond of one of them and the other one is VERY aggressive, so I've decided the chances of finding them a forever lasting home are slim and they're best staying with me The girls have started losing weight, quite quickly infact and their hair has started growing back (overgrooming). They seem much happier now they have enough space and a wheel big enough for them both. I bought a snuggle safe the other day and they've claimed it as theirs! I have four cages now (and 7 degus) , but I thought I'd buy just one snuggle safe and see if they all like them. All the boys have ignored it so far, but the girls love it! I'll buy some more when I have the money as I'm sure they'll use them if they get cold. One of the girls has a name, but I'm still deciding on the other one's name. I'm torn between Layla and Lilith for the girlie who is now my little princess! She's so friendly and confident I've named the aggressive girl, Grace. It's not my favourite name, but I found myself calling her a disgraceful little madam when she tries to bite (which she does!) and that soon became Grace Behavior.... In regards to Grace's aggression, it doesn't at all seem to me that it's fearfull aggression. It very much seems to be territorial. If I go over to the cage to say hello to them, Grace will be up the bars of the cage throwing her weight at the bars, grunting, barking.... and almost growling at me. She does this every time I'm near the cage. All I have to do is talk to her and she's off. She'll try to bite my fingers if I put my hand on the cage and tries to attack my hand/arm whenever I have to put them in the cage for cleaning/etc. I've tried talking gently and I've tried talking with a stern voice, both get the same reaction. If I feed her through the bars, she's more than happy to take the food off me, which again implies that she's not afraid of me, but I can't be sure. I think the fact that she launches herself in my direction with her teeth ready makes me think it's territorial! lol. While I don't treat her any differently from my others.... well, other than the fact that I won't touch her, this behavior is annoying and doesn't make my life very easy. I obviously can't do the normal training with her as she'll bite my hands til they fall off, but is there anything I can do to just stop the biting? I don't care is she's never a cuddly degu who wants love, but I'd like to be able to put my hand in the cage whenever I need to without the fear of losing it! lol. I have considered putting her in the dominace hold, but.... em, not sure I'd be able to control that fat madam very confidently. Putting my boys in that hold has never been a problem. I actually think it has no affect on Stefan now (the naughty one), lol. If anyone can suggest anything that might help.... I'd be very grateful!
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Post by amie on Apr 8, 2011 0:14:21 GMT
I forgot to add that her previous owners (who thought they were both male) said that she wasn't aggressive when they had them. I have no reason not to believe this, but who knows? I'm sure they would have told me if she was. They had no reason to lie as I would have had them anyway. I was also told that they weren't incredibly friendly either. They weren't bonded with their owners which is the reason they gave them up. The girls just lived in a thickets cage with little attention. I'd like to know why she's this aggressive, but unfortunately, I don't speak THAT much 'Degu'.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 8, 2011 1:21:02 GMT
You are completely confident that Grace is indeed female? I'm just wondering if she thinks she is protecting her mate from the other degus you have, perhaps interpreting you as a threat to them somehow. OR maybe she hasn't fully settled in yet . . . . If the other owners were so little in touch with them, I am wondering if they had enough interaction to really know her personality. Maybe she likes being ignored. I am inclined to think that you need to use the dominance hold on her as well. Although, I think I would want to use leather gloves, really THICK leather gloves. Which might not do the trick, as they won't smell of you, but of leather. She needs to learn that you are top goo though. She may be very resistant to taming, but if we can just find out her particular ticks, I think we will see you winning her over in time.
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Post by amie on Apr 8, 2011 2:44:23 GMT
I'm 90% sure she's female. I say 90% because I haven't had a second opinion her 'bits' yet. I'll upload a picture or a video when I have time. I have to catch her first.... eek lol. The dominace hold will be hard for me because she's HUGE and I have tiny hands, lol. She's a very strong girl. "She needs to learn that you are top goo though. She may be very resistant to taming, but if we can just find out her particular ticks, I think we will see you winning her over in time." She certainly likes food She's back a forth from the cage bars to grab her Gerty Guinea pig off me. She burries it and then she's back again, lol. I hope I can win her over. Her sister is so sweet which makes me hope she can be too
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 8, 2011 5:17:24 GMT
What have you tried with her for special treats? Some that tend to send goos in general "insane" with greed are oats, sunflower seeds, peanuts, walnut/pecans, brazil nuts, rose petals, rose hips, dried pasta, peanut butter, and unsweetened/unsalted organic tomato paste. None of these should be given in excess, but in tiny little tidbits, they are great for training. One of my boys will turn himself inside out for tomato paste, while the other two are somewhat indifferent. ALL of them adore any of the nuts I have listed. Nuts should always be broken into small bits and given a tiny crumb at a time, making one nut go as far as you can . . . but as you are training, don't be too chinsey with it either. Anyway, do some exploration and see if you can't find out what her particular kryptonite is, so that she is completely unable to resist. THAT will give you an upper hand that is really handy to have. Degus really DO think with their stomachs. LOL! Once you know that, you will find that she will quickly stop running away to eat, and will sit right there, eating it as fast as she can, and then looking to your fingers for more. As she starts to do this, you can start stroking her sides very gently while she is eating. If she growls or protests at you, stop for a short little bit, then start again. Pretty soon she will begin to accept your touch while she eats. It could take a while . . . a couple of months even . . . but one day you will notice that she hasn't growled at you and may even be looking to sit on your hand while she eats, and then you will know you are gaining her trust.
Let us know how the "tempting tidbit exploration trials" go! I really hope you have great success with this!
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 8, 2011 5:20:44 GMT
I also will peel apples and, keeping the skins, let the skin dry and then give it for treats. The skin has so much less sugar than the fruit itself, is great fibre, and the boys LOVE it as well. They also love the occassional frozen blueberry, which are not high sugar for fruit.
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Post by w8152 on Apr 8, 2011 8:22:04 GMT
next suggestion... do you make sure you dont smell of the others... both clothes and hands. try washing your hands with fragranced soap before you put them near her and guage her reaction
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Post by amie on Apr 8, 2011 13:08:44 GMT
Oh yes, I've learned to always make sure I don't take one groups smell to another groups cage, lol. She just seems to be like that. My partner, who doesn't interact with any of them, has gone over to the cage to see if she's the same with him.... and she is. He doesn't smell off any of the degus (unless degu scents are transferred by people telling them to shut up.... as that's about the only contact he has with them!). You know, I've tried oats with the girls and they just ignore them. They're eighteen months old (so I'm told) and I have no idea if they've ever had them before. I've tried shreddies, wallnuts, sun flower seeds, oats, herbal salad forage (can't remember the exact name, but it's from the same brand as woodlands herbal delight, it's just the salad type mix). They love the salad forage, but that's what got them fat in the first place! So, I'm going easy on that. My boys are due some millet spray today and they all go WILD for that. I think it's the favourite in our house. So, I'm going to try the girlies on that. It has helped me a great deal with Damon over the last couple of months, but he was never aggressive like Grace, he was just scared. I'm also going to check Grace's bits again today and I will confirm her sex with a picture Or.... she will be a he.... and.... well, I don't even want to think about that!
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Post by amie on Apr 9, 2011 4:41:20 GMT
She's definately a girl. I managed to check her today. I couldn't get a picture because man did she put up a fight! I'll try to take a picture soon, but I'm certain she's female.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 9, 2011 5:07:56 GMT
Some females have more than usual amounts of testosterone in their bodies, which definitely ramps up their aggression. It isn't really common, but not unheard of either, and that could be the case with graceless Grace. If it is . . . well . . . you would be seeing aggression expressed against her cage mate, the little princess. And the only way to deal with too much testosterone is to have her spayed. However, I think she treats her cage mate well, and her humans badly, so it is definitely an attitude that is directed not hormonally produced. So the ball still lays in your court, and you will have to either convince her she is wrong, or just accept her as is.
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Post by malteser60 on Apr 9, 2011 7:58:08 GMT
I think it's going to be a case of whose stubborn the longest. Keep on going to her cage, keep on talking to her. She'll carry on growling at you and hopefully some day (not too far in the future hopefully) she will get fed up at being angry at you. She will habituate with you being there. Also be confident, animals can smell fear. Not that I'm saying your fearful of her, but you may be hesitant about being bitten again and she'll pick up on that. Do what deguconvert says and try different treat. And just keep on persisting. That's about the only thing you can do.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 9, 2011 20:08:28 GMT
Yup, it is about the only thing you can do. Of our three boys, one (Snug) was very leary of humans, and I think holding a grudge against all humans for the loss of his tail sometime before we bought them at 12 weeks of age. He just DID not want to have anything to do with us. His brother, and our other degu, were both quite friendly and doing so well, but Snug was well past earning the name Jaws. I finally got plain frustrated and decided that I didn't care one hoot about his hangups, he was going to fit the name I choose for him (Snuggabug) and not the Jaws he was emulating!!! I determined that I didn't care how many times he bit me, how much I bled, or how stinking long it might take, I WAS GOING TO BE THE WINNER! LOL! It took about five months, and I took him out 3-4 times every day, he bit me every day for the first three months, and at least 3 times a week the bites were really deep ones, but I just literally gritted my teeth and told him through the pain that he wasn't going to beat me!! I learned that if I quickly got to the bathroom, and washed my hands thoroughly, then sprayed them right after with a product called Bactine (usually a couple times a day) that the bites wouldn't fester and give me grief. About the four month mark I got a couple days in a row without a bite, and then things started to improve, until at the end of the fifth month I was a week bite free! No bites since that time. Now, I did a lot of praying, I have to say. I wanted God to help His little critter fall in line with the plan. LOL Stubborness was definitely key to coming out on top, though!
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Post by Jaiye on Apr 9, 2011 20:13:52 GMT
Glad to hear it has all worked out for you DC!
And best of luck with Grace Amie!
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