Bitten!

[Whizz]

My boys are reaching the horrendous 6 month mark in about a weeks time.

Gus and Mario had a fight in the early hours of this morning, it resulted in Mario having two bites by his mouth (to the side and underneath). I cleaned it with water in the early hours and cleaned it today with very very very weak wound disinfectant - Savlon (Lots of water and little Savlon). I use it for when my dog hurts his claws.

Mario spend the night in a separate cage to recuperate and have a good nights sleep. The wound is a bit swollen today and they were all given a sand bath today whilst we cleaned them out. I put Mario and Luigi together as know they get on and Luigi was fab and helped Mario clean himself and clean out his bites.
I have now put them all back in the big cage, there are some scraps happening here and there but not involving Mario. He's is having no trouble eating and drinking, he's just a bit laid back and restful.

I'm not sure what else I can do for him, I will keep an eye on him and his wounds so if they get worse I shall have to take him to the Vets to get it looked over.
I thought about putting Vaseline or Sudocreme on his bites but I wasn't too sure? - just incase he or one of the others swallowed a little bit of.

Also - Whilst I'm at it.
At around 7am, the other three (whilst Mario was in the separate cage) were squeaking and chasing each other? I had to separate them before it got worse (we had to clean them out anyway). And once they got back in the big cage (a lot of their old substrate was in it and they shared the same sand bath) they were still squeaking/chasing but not as much - maybe because Mario was back in there with them? But anyway, today they have been a bit shifty with each other, mostly staying separate - I'm guessing this is normal, as they just want to 'stay out the way'?

[deguconvert]

Difficult to say, really. It probably has more to do with the changing dynamics in the cage and a feeling of uncertainty that is probably begining to rise. That will be happening more and more, so more than anything, you need to observe what is going on and see if you can understand who is making the bid to be top goo and who is contesting it. Those will be your biggest disruptors, and knowing which is which is important in being able to deal with them accurately. That said . . . not so easy to do, so my sympathies are with you. Now that you are coming into this . . . wild and hairy . . . time of degu growth and development . . . post as often as you need to in order to keep your sanity. We're here for you!

[smux]

Also, the best way to clean wounds is water (preferably boiled and cooled, but warm mix of cold and hot from the tap if in an emergency) with a good amount of salt in it, called "saline solution"...put enough salt in that when you mix it the water goes slightly cloudy, and apply it to the cut with either a cotton bud (for small cuts) or a piece of tissue (larger cuts) and wipe dry with tissue afterwards if you need to. It should be pointed out that this does sting a little (the less salt you use the less it stings but the more often you should clean it) but the salt helps to clean and cauterise the wound (promote healing by closing it up to keep any germs out).

My boys are near the end of their puberty period now, they were born approximately in January (possible the breeder lied to get rid of older degus, that's why I am not 100% sure), so I know what you are going through. There may come a time when you just can't handle the constant squabbling (when it is more than playfighting, of course), and this is when you should consider splitting the cage up EVEN if it means one or all degus are on their own...just make sure they have some toilet tissue for bedding and some food at the very least (you could buy some spare water bottles and food bowls in advance just in case, of course) and talk to them individually to let them know you still love them.

One thing to remember, continuing on from what DC said about who is trying to be the dominant one, is that you shouldn't interfere in their heirarchy unless the fights for control are getting dangerous as with my two Dante and Elsevier (who are now permanently on their own although I am still considering ways to sort it out...problem is they're both dominant and won't let the other be) because your interference could reset the heirarchial structure and they'd have to start again, meaning more fights.

[Whizz]

Thanks guys, I just a bit upset to see them so wound up at each other.

Since I had to separate them this morning I've not interfered with them at all. Just spoken to them briefly. I just want them to settle and be much better, I can tell this will be hard for me - I cried my eyes out at the site of Mario being hurt, so I understand it is vital that I try not to interfere and reset the order.
I have checked Mario and he is much better - I tried the saline solution, and I could tell it stung a bit for him, but he seems a bit more perky.

They're still shifty with each other, so I'll have to invest in some wire mesh/cage to spilt the cage up if necessary. It seems to be that two will get on with each other, and so will the other two - but they won't mix between the pairs.

Do you think it would bother them in I extended their cage? (upwards) So they had enough room for themselves?

It seems to be when they box but do not make any noises that it turns serious.

[smux]

If they're playfighting it always comes with chittering, if there's no chittering it's serious (chittering is a way of saying they're happy to do what they're doing) but you should only interfere if it gets more serious than boxing or if you think the boxing is causing either of them pain.

If you extend the cage to make more room for them, and there's more floors rather than just more height, it might make some difference in that they'll probably get to see each other less often...even better if there's more than one way up and down so they don't always have to pass each other...but if they're at the puberty point then it's sometimes better to let these things happen as they do (it's going to happen anyway whether now or when they're near the end of puberty), although not everything of course :-)
If you still want to, feel free to do so by all means, it'll make them happier if they have more cage space.

[deguconvert]

I agree, you can never go wrong with more cage space.

[Whizz]

I had some leftover Mesh from the run I made them, so this weekend I'm planning to extend their cage (:

Gus got hurt last night, I'm not sure who was responsible but he had a bit of a nosebleed, a cut next to his nose/mouth, a cut on his upper arm and a scrap on his shoulder where they had a bit of a scrap. He spent the night to recuperate and such.
We put him in again in the morning, having a sand bath first and the others did aswell, I left them to smell and get on.

It seems that Luigi and Chewy are the two that fighting it out to be dominant, maybe because Gus and Mario are injured so they're weaker than Luigi and Chewy.

They seems to be getting on okay this evening, which is nice - a few chittering/squabbles (non-serious) here and there, but we've kept them busy by entertaining them.

From personal experience, how long does this puberty behaviour last?
I'm asking as we're hoping to buy them a much bigger cage around January/February time, but I don't want to buy one now to make any more stress for them.

[smux]

Adulthood officially begins at 58 weeks, that's when the testosterone levels will peter out and normalise and any further growth will be slow and of course that's when their behaviour will mellow out a little. From experience with Dante/Elsevier though (both are over a year old) the dominance thing never ends (it's been the cause of all of Dante's injuries) and they're no less exhuberant than my teen boys are (they'll be through puberty in February, I believe).

Buying a new cage shouldn't cause any more stress to them, it should have the opposite effect...it MAY cause a few squabbles about ownership of certain areas, of course, you might want to avoid that if some of the boys aren't their normal self as it would be unfair on them :-)
If the cage is packed with toys and new things to investigate (or "chew") then they'll love the present you've bought them.

[deguconvert]

In some cases, the added space has made a tremendous improvement in the relationships between contentious degus. Having that extra bit can really take the edge off, especially if they feel crowded. It's not always easy to guess why they feel crowded . . . but degus more than other small furries require a lot of cage/floor area due to their high energy and activity. It's not a guaranteed cure for aggression issues, but it certainly won't increase it, and may help to reduce or eliminate it.

[Whizz]

Thanks guys. Just didn't want to cause any more stress or anything. I'm getting a brand new cage for them, much bigger than the one they are in now. They'll feel very spoilt indeed. It is back in stock 2/12/10 so I am placing an order on saturday and then they will reserve me one and will send it as soon as poss.

Their getting on ALOT better now, had a few squabbles here and there but they seem to calm down just before bedtime (so they have someone to cuddle with!). So hopefully, they should ultimately calm down with the new cage x

[deguconvert]

Oh that sounds great!! You must be very glad to see them calming down, and I am happy for you. So glad that the cage is in stock again!! I hope one comes for you very soon! I look forward to hearing what the goos think of it, and seeing pictures of them in. It will be a really good thing, I'm sure!