Pregnant Degu

[kristenfiddes]

In the last week Penny has bloomed in size. We wouldn't have noticed if we hadn't have got Degu #2 a.k.a. Tink, as she's tiny in comparison. So we got an appointment with a vet, and although he hadn't had any history with Degu's, upon feeling her stomach he concluded she was in fact pregnant with at least 3 babies.
So what do we, as owners, do when the babies come along? I know there's a certain amount of time where we don't touch the babies or otherwise she'd disown them. How long is that period? What else do we need to know?
Tink won't attack the babies either will she? The two get on well enough at the moment, so I'm hoping she doesn't turn on the babies.

[smux]

How long have you had Penny/Tink? If it's a long time then you should know how they are with each other and what sort of things they do. Tink SHOULD help with any of the chores around the cage once the babies are born, but you MAY find you have to move her out of the cage or to another part away from the babies if she does start to fight with them or anything...this shouldn't happen, as degus don't see babies as a threat.

Also, degus aren't like most rodents, you can handle the babies from hour 1 and mum won't disown them and she DEFINITELY will not try to eat them like hamsters do. If Penny trusts you (if you've had her a while, she should do) she'll welcome your help with looking after them, and if you do handle the babies (although it isn't advisable to do so for long periods of time in the first few weeks) you will know that baby wants to return to mum when they squeak for her, and she'll come running to you and ask for the baby back :-)

You should probably read the posts in the "breeding and baby care" thread, and feel free to ask any questions you need to...I've just been through a pregnancy (ending in 3 babies) and am at the end of another which is due to happen any time soon, so I'll post any suggestions I have.

One thing to ignore (both here and on Degutopia) and that's the advice to put the father in with the mum and babies after a certain period of time...it's WHY I am going through a second pregnancy, when I didn't even want the first to happen :-)

[kristenfiddes]

We don't have the father in our care. We don't even know who the father is. We've only had Penny about three weeks and Tink a week this upcoming Sunday. Penny was great with us until she expanded in size and now she's more careful which I can understand. Tink trusted us within days though. So they haven't been together that long and they still have the odd little play fights which Penny always wins.
I posted this on here before I realised there was a Breeding/Baby Care section, oops. But I'll be sure to take a look through there.

[smux]

If you've only had them a short time, it would be advisable to keep them apart for the first few days after the babies have been born except when you're supervising...that way you'll see first-hand how they get on with each other with the babies in the mix. Playfights are the norm, even with degus that have been together for years, although who wins does matter as it gives them all an idea of where everyone is in the hierarchy...a boss degu who keeps losing in playfights will soon lose his position at the top :-)

If Penny trusts you enough to get onto your hand, hold her facing away from you and run your finger gently over her stomach on and from the side (both sides) and you should be able to feel nipples (little bumps) in what I would personally have considered to be weird places. If you can't feel nipples, don't worry, as these are your warning that she is due to give birth within the next week or so (I noticed nipples on my Theresa a few days ago, and I've done the maths based on when I think she would have been impregnated and she should give birth between the 17th and 24th November (87-94 days afterwards, according to degutopia) and it just means you've got a bit of time before the "event". If Penny doesn't trust you enough, you might be able to get a feel of her stomach inside the cage, but at the very worst get her to stand up at the side (offer a treat high up in the cage) and where the nipples are you will see a piece of fur being lifted slightly away from the body for each of them.

A few more things I will point out...although you shouldn't handle the babies at first, take every opportunity to do so ESPECIALLY if she has a large litter of more than 5. If she has a large litter, she'll welcome the help to keep them entertained (as long as you heed the squeaks if baby wants back) and in any case you need the babies to recognise your scent and touch from as early an age as possible for a good bond to form (important even if you haven't decided what you are doing with the babies yet...the bond is not just with you but with humans in general). When I handled the first litter of babies, I would wash my hands beforehand just to be on the safe side but mostly so they didn't associate any other scents with me...after the first few weeks I only washed my hands if I had been handling food that they might not like the smell of :-)
Another thing to note is that babies can't regulate their body temperature at first so your holding of them actually helps keep them warm as well. When I set up their cage for the babies to live in with mum, I covered the cage on all sides except the front so it was nice and dark with no draughts and it was also fairly warm...this cover was on for about 3 weeks, and is especially useful at night or when you want them to be quiet or calm down for bedtime (and very useful if you've got them in a bright sun-lit room). They had a box to live in (with a hole cut in it for the door and lots of toilet tissue inside to keep them comfortable and warm) and I draped a cosy T-shirt over the top to keep the heat in (which they also used to climb up onto the roof once they got a bit more daring). For the floor, I only used wood shavings with a tiny bit of hay (and it was a mesh floor, being an all-mesh cage, so I covered that with cardboard first) and I had a little play area where they had timothy hay to eat and lots of treats stashed away in the hay/shavings. I had two bottles, a tiny baby one for them and a big one for mum, and they both ended up using the baby one for some reason (I assume mum wanted babies to understand what to do). I also had food in there, important both for mum and babies as babies will try to eat as soon as they possibly can and it's good to have it there so they can try whenever they want to.

There isn't much else of importance I can think of saying, but I'm here for questions if there are any and I'm sure other people will help if they can.

[kristenfiddes]

They've already made a warm nest under the clothes we put in there -simply so they'd get the scent of us. The cage they are in -which we made and is pretty large with lots of toys and climbing frames- is well insulated and close to a radiator which would keep them warm too.

I'll separate Tink as soon as the babies come along then. What about putting a temporary divider in the cage, so she couldn't hurt them but they can still smell each other and interact safely? As they will be living together at some point.

But thank you for all the help and advice. I just read your signature and you must be a pro at this with the amount of Degu's you own.

[smux]

The location sounds good, just make sure it doesn't get too hot either...maybe a little bit of space between the cage and the radiator if it is too close. Glad to hear you used the clothes trick for scent so they get used to you...it'll help the babies recognise you too from the very start.

It is up to you if you want to separate Tink before or after they're born, or at all, if you wait until after then you'll get to see how she interacts with the babies and she's there to support Penny. Also (on reading when you got these two), it sounds like you either sped through introductions, they were introduced before or you're winging it on introductions at the moment...have they been introduced properly or did they just get on from day 1 fine without any problems at all? I'm asking because if there's any chance that something could happen because they weren't introduced then it is probably more important to split them up before the babies are born...some cohabiting females have been known to get jealous/vindictive after a birth although I don't think it is the norm. Dividing the cage temporarily will do fine as long as she can't get into Penny's side and you can get into both sides to attend to them if needed. You may also notice a difference in Tink once the babies are born (as mentioned above) and if she's safely away then the babies will be fine. You will probably want the divider set up so it's easy to dismantle but easy to put back again...that way you can take the chance and see how Tink is, and divide it again if it doesn't go well.

I'm not so much a pro, I've had degus since early this year, I've just absorbed a lot of knowledge on degus in that time and before I got them (in preparation) and I've got the kind of logical mind that thinks up ways of doing things. Having 12 degus is no different to having 2 degus really, just you feed 6x as much food and get through 6x as many wood sticks...started with 4, added 3 to help someone here who needed to rehome their girls, then added 2 for the same reason and then Theresa gave birth to 3 more. I guess having 12 degus for 6 months is almost like having 2 degus for 3 years in the amount of experience you gain from it, and I've experienced quite a lot :-)

[kristenfiddes]

My boyfriend read an introduction method where you sit in a neutral space like a bath and you introduce the two Degu's in that space. That way both are new to the environment and there's no jealousy and boundary issues. They got on straight away, Penny groomed her and if Tink ever got scared -she was VERY nervous the first few days- she'd run to Penny who would immediately stand in front of her, groom her and watch us carefully. Because of Penny's good interaction with us, Tink has learnt from her fairly quickly.
That being said, I think we will separate Tink at first as she does enjoy the limelight and with Penny concentrating on her little ones I think Tink will get jealous.

[smux]

Sped through introductions then, but in this case it's fine...See how she is with them once you've got some time to supervise them...don't forget, the babies don't need to be introduced in the same way as adults, they should get on fine with each other from the start