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Post by pappy1264 on Jan 4, 2011 19:38:11 GMT
Ok, I noticed today, both Rosie and Violets teeth don't look as dark orange as they used to. I remember reading this could mean illness or a deficiency, is that true? They both seem to be eating and acting ok. HELP!
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Post by degus123 on Jan 4, 2011 19:50:14 GMT
white teeth are a sign of vitamin A deficiency
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Post by degus123 on Jan 4, 2011 19:54:21 GMT
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Post by smux on Jan 4, 2011 20:04:12 GMT
It is however a natural occurrence as a degu gets older. It shouldn't happen noticably though, not compared to how have noticed the colour in their teeth previously, only if you look at pictures from a long time a go or if you compare them to younger degus. It also isn't a definite with all older degus, just the older they get the more of the vitamin they need to keep the colour as the body gets less and less able to deal with the vitamin and doesn't use it as efficiently as before.
If your gals are still young, perhaps a boost of vitamins would be a good idea...if you were in the UK I would suggest chinchillas2shop as they have a lot of useful supplements that could be added to their food or given as a treat, but I am really only mentioning that so that if anyone else has this problem and reads this post they have their solution if they're in the UK. As you're in the States, vitamin supplements are readily available everywhere and I guess if you can find one that is diabetic-safe (sugar-free) and in tablet form you could crunch it up and add it to their water. I would suggest you wait for other people to give comments on this as I am not talking from experience, just giving a possible way to deal with it. I know at least one or two people here do this and it isn't something I have done yet but mostly because Damien and Loki both like to waste water by attacking the bottle (they still do it!) and it'd be a waste, plus they're all a bit young for deficiencies to be a problem. I might do it for my Dante and the girlies, as they're a bit older, but it is probably better to feed them treats from C2C as I mentioned above as it's made specifically for them.
One thing I know for sure, steer clear of ANY supplements in liquid form that you add to their water that are made specifically for pets...they don't actually like to let it be clearly obvious, but most (if not all) of them contain sugar or derivatives to sweeten the taste. If you find one in a shop, check the label for glucose, fructose, sucrose, anything that is sugar-based...you'll be hard-pressed to find one that has none of them as most of the sources for the vitamins contain sugar. Saying that, tablets would be exactly the same and the levels of the sugar would probably be extremely low...in moderation they may all be safe :-)
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Post by pappy1264 on Jan 4, 2011 20:10:52 GMT
They will NOT eat greens, no matter what I offer. They eat their pellets *Sunseed, which I leave in all time. Fresh (2nd cut) hay, a little oats, an occasional sunflower seed or two (not often), and on rare occasion, they will eat an in shell hazelnut (no more then once a month). They also LOVE greenbeans (which they usually get one every other day). They are pretty picky about anything else. They are not 'white' but are def. not as orange looking as they used to be (Violets 'show' more then Rosies....well, not straight on, but if she tilts her head backwards, you can see her teeth.) They don't seem to be having issues eating, and no lumps around jaw or face. Should I be concerned? Should I pick up human vit. A tabs, as stated, and give it to them. Thanks guys, I don't want anything to happen to them!
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Post by smux on Jan 4, 2011 20:44:56 GMT
If they are getting old (given the state of their diet, of their own accord of course, consider 2+ to be old...not that I am saying they won't last long, just that it would happen earlier in degus with poor diets and not enough vitamins) then I wouldn't be overly worried about it, just keep on with the greenbeans (they're greens enough, although I would have thought a variation would have been better for them) and try other stuff you haven't tried before like fresh herbs (basil, mint, whatever you can get or grow, you might be surprised) or other vegetables. Dried vegetables are also a good choice for them, my lot all like dried carrots and so do many people's degus, although they aren't as nutritious as fresh (and they contain a higher concentration of the bad stuff like sugars or oils) they'll make a difference although you give them in moderation.
Are they big gnawers? The yellow is just a covering on the tooth rather than the actual colour of the tooth, and if they gnaw a lot of wood this covering will wear away...this is sorta a good thing (I'm not sure if the covering serves any purpose, it's just an indication for other degus and their owners), just something you need to be aware of if it's happening.
Another option you have, although one they might not be interested in, is putting a water bottle filled with vegetable juice in (liquidised veg?) and hoping they drink from it sometimes (they'd be forced to if you didn't have a bottle with normal water in, but I would never suggest that someone does that...perhaps let the water bottle go empty so they can go to the backup juice bottle for a day, but not permanently :-))...if you add in the right amount of water to the mix it should be thin enough to go through the bottle fine, although this is probably going to spoil quickly so would need emptying and replacing daily probably...the tiniest water bottle you can find is probably the best option there, and half-fill it (oh, and cover the bottle so the sunlight doesn't get to it...it'll last longer that way). Other choices like shop-bought carrot or tomato juice are a possibility, they might need sieving with a very fine sieve to get out any bits (as might the vegetable juice I mentioned above...liquidising never does the job completely :-)) but they'll do as a substitute (and obviously watch for any added sugars).
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Post by pappy1264 on Jan 4, 2011 21:02:46 GMT
Oh, now that you mention it, about 6 weeks ago (maybe a little more) I got them this great wood house and they gnaw it ALL THE TIME....although their diet isn't great (although they people that had them fed them it, they are who told me what to feed them), I bet this is more likely the cause (they never had things to chew before coming here. I give them apple sticks, but they really 'get their teeth into' the wood house! And they are both over two years, although Rosie is about 6 months older.
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Post by pappy1264 on Jan 4, 2011 21:04:52 GMT
Oh, I forgot, they do get (and eat) shaved carrots (I was so worried, forgot....) I will try some different herbs and see if they will eat them (I have tried parsley, fresh, but they wouldn't even go near the dish with it in it!!!)
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Post by smux on Jan 4, 2011 21:12:48 GMT
I wouldn't worry a great deal about it if they're 2+ years old...as long as they're a fairly strong orange-yellow as opposed to bright orange they should be fine. Also remember, not JUST the herbs I suggested, try anything (obviously except curry leaves and the like :-P) and see if they'll have a nibble (preferably something you can get for free to try or that you can make use of or give to someone else who can make use of). Thyme is another good one, lemongrass is a good grass to feed them and you can even grow it in their cage (or timothy grass, or normal standard grass...they're usually not fussy...although I would try them with freshly cut lemongrass and normal garden grass first...only feed fresh grass from areas that aren't going to be polluted) with a mesh around the pot so they don't go digging in it :-)
Good to hear that they have a more varied veg diet than you previously mentioned :-P I'd up the amounts of carrots you give them, if they're fresh...add a small pile of carrot shavings to their food bowl regularly (possibly daily, but perhaps only in the week or perhaps every second day, it's up to you) to give them a little boost of vitamin A.
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Post by pappy1264 on Jan 4, 2011 21:35:03 GMT
Ok, just offered both cages a mix of dried thyme, basil and parsley flakes and they are all eating it!!! (also put carrots in, as well). Cheeky and Nibbs I know were fed some type of crackers ( will look up what they said they were), I do know they were 'people food'. I just want them to be healthy. I wish they were a little chunkier, although they are not 'skinny' (need to try to get a weight, but that is easier said then done...lol) Thanks guys!
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Post by smux on Jan 4, 2011 21:52:30 GMT
If you think they're a little bit underweight, the odd extra nut here and there won't do them any harm if they are getting regular exercise. All mine get quite a few sunflower seeds on a regular basis and the odd piece of walnut, almond and any other nut I can get my hands on every so often (it helped a little that the supermarkets sold the "christmas nut" mixed bag on special offer but if I give any of them a whole nut to themselves it always ended in fights and whines from them all. A peanut once or twice a week is a bare minimum if you think they're a little bit underweight, and there is nothing unhealthy about treating them more often than this if they are at or below their ideal weight of 250-300g...care should only be taken if they're overweight, and obviously you should slow down if they start putting on too much weight because of it. The key word here is exercise...they'll burn off most of the fat you put into them if they're active and have access to lots to play with like an exercise wheel or a play pen (or playtime out of the cage) regularly.
Because of their age, I wouldn't go too over the top with this at first, just up the treat amount a little bit at a time and make sure they're burning off some of this excess fat they're getting. If they're not really as active as mentioned above, a peanut or two per week should be more than enough (or a mix of about the same amount of other nuts and seeds, like pumpkin/sunflower seeds) to fatten them up a bit. My Dante gets a LOT of treats, he gets little bits of nut daily, but he is very active both in his wheel and around the front room (he has free reign) and the difference in his size from when he came to us (he was very chubby compared to his brother Elsevier and, to be honest, compared to any of my other degus) and now is noticable, he's nowhere near as big as he was...it's all about the exercise :-)
As for weighing them, you will learn to tell when they're overweight, you'll notice if they look a bit bigger than they should be, but this will come from experience with them.
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Post by pappy1264 on Jan 4, 2011 23:29:04 GMT
They do get an occasional almond or even a piece of pecan. They run constantly in their wheels (as do Cheeky and Nibbs, although I think they did not run as much before they came here and they were fed more 'junk' from what I was told. They have lost some weight since coming here (but in my opinion they were overweight. They look good now!) I will try to get some new pics to post of all four, to compare size. I used to give a bit more nuts but cut back as I thought they were not good for them (which could explain the weight loss/looking leaner). I am such a worry wort and these are my first (four) and I have to say, I LOVE DEGUS!!!
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Post by smux on Jan 5, 2011 0:57:33 GMT
It sounds to me like they're getting enough exercise, and also getting this fat into their body allows them to have the energy to exercise which allows their fat to turn into muscle...you can't gain muscle well without fat or exercise...and muscles mean a healthy degu! This is only a good thing if you don't mind the chance that they MIGHT one day be able to overpower you and take over the house...my Damien's already tried a few times but Loki won't be a part of it :-)
Feel free to up the dosage of nuts, but perhaps give them less each time, or feel free to give them the same amount but a little bit more often, OR (and this is probably the best one...give me a min to explain) consider giving them bigger nuts just as often as you already do. The more often you give them treats, the less of a treat it seems like. You could also have a treat nut and a regular nut...regular treat for mine is sunflower seeds, and the treat is nut (usually walnut but it differs) bits. Try them on different nuts every so often...pistachios are a good one but bear in mind they are very salty so should be a very rare treat (and make sure the water bottle's full) ...basically vary the treats to make them more treaty :-)
And yep, we all love our degus...there's very little we won't do for them. A lot of my money goes on treats for them. I get £65 a week at the moment (benefits to live on) and last week I went into pets @ home and spent £85 on two snugglesafes and a plethora of treats...two big heavy bags full of stuff for them :-)
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