more trouble with Lord B

[mandymon]

Seems like i'm always on here asking for advice about one of my degu's, Lord bouncington.

As of late (since last wed) he has become very aggressive/violent and destructive.
I cant think why it would be, He was ok on the wednesday morning but around about dinner time when i went to put in their dust bath he was acting different and has continued since.

I cant put my hand in the cage without him running over to scratch and bite me totally unprevoked. The only time he doesn't is when i feed him some oats in my palm but the minute he is done he bites. I dont want to resort to wearing gloves but i am considering it as i look and feel like i fell in a thorn bush.

He has also started fighting with the other goo Ninja steve who has always been the more submissive of the two.
If steve has a nugget, that causes a fight.
If steve's on a wheel... fight,
if steve goes to get water... fight.
Etc
I haven't wanted to separate the two of them but they are now seperated, rather shoddily by cardboard when i am not in the house just to avoid anything bad happening. It's never been bloody that i can tell but they are quite legnthy and noisy spats that leave poor steve cowering in their wee house.

if he isn't biting me and the other goo, Lord bouncington is rampaging around.
Since the start of writing this post he has gone through another rung on their wood ladder (bitten off on bothe sides then eaten), pushed the food bowl over and not sat still for even a second just running at speed in a set pattern. He also has a habit of knawing and shaking on the bars of the cage so violently he flips round and falls over.

Nothing has happened that i can think of that would cause this behaviour as the other Goo steve, is fine.
i havent caught his paw or tail, the rooms the same as always and all thats changed is this morning i put a new wheel in as he knawed through quite a few bits in the old one but he was already acting oddly before that.

I tried giving him more play time running about my room and more time in the ball thinking maybe he was bored but all he does when you take him out is bite you alot an try to get back in the cage. He has plenty of food and water and gets lots of company during the day time aswell as having lots of things to chew on to keep his teeth down so i am at a bit of a lose end as the behaviour is constant.
I had been hoping it would sort itself out by now but it seems to be getting worse so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks guys

[moletteuk]

Is he eating and drinking normally? Is he lethargic at all in between the energy/aggression?

Have you changed anything at all in the cage or surroundings?

It seems a bit unusual to me that he is violent to Steve, you and cage items, possibly suggesting he could be in pain?

[mandymon]

he is still eating and drinking as normal and has all the energy he usually has. only thing i changed, as i said, was the wheel this morning which was after this behaviour began.

I had thought pain although i dont think it is a tummy thing since hes eating/drinking/going to the toilet ok and i dont think its eternal anyway as when he is eating oats and is preoccupied i kinda, pat him down i guess, and no flintching or squeaking atall from him

[deguconvert]

Very strange behavior indeed! Have you changed food, added new food, removed an item from their food that they used to have access to?

[Deleted]

How old is he? Could it possibly be hormones, like puberty just kicked in for example?
It's about the only thing I could think of besides changes in food/environment etc. that
has already been mentioned..

[deguconvert]

Just in case you are uncertain of what age puberty kicks in with degus . . . it's from six months up to as old as 18 months, though some seem to level out just after 12 months of age.

[mandymon]

hey guys, i had thought hormones maybe but hes only about 16 weeks so still just a wee nub.
His food is the exact same as ever as are his treats, im still on the original bags and nothing has been added

Starting to seriously wonder if you can get schizophrenic degus. The constant noise and having to watch them non stop is starting to really affect my uni work

[deguconvert]

OOF!! Wonder if he needs early intervention via neutering? That is if hormones are indeed contributing to his rise in aggressions.

[fred]

Sounds really strange. I am wondering how you define biting and how fighting? There can be unprovoked nipping, which can still be painful but is different from serious bites. How do the fights with Ninja steve manifest themselves? We had a case of a degu with “suspected ADHD” a few months back and I am thinking whether it could be something similar.

[mandymon]

lorb B will just start squealing, run over and nip steve regardless of steves current activity whether its running on the wheel to sleeping. Then he will chase him and then have a scrap.
been a bit of fur pulled out at most, i usually break it up fairy early on when im home.

TBH im more concerned about his biting the bars and chains, hes really violent and flips round on himself alot, i tried giving him more wooden treats but he just goes through them like a bullet and goes back to the metal, he even chews he sand bath and wheel stand, if its metal, he will chew it vigorously

worried one time he will hurt his teeth of have a bad flip

[deguconvert]

OK . . . another potential source of mental stress on degus . . . if this is indeed his trouble at this time . . . can be cage size and set up. Can you remind us of your cage size, and maybe show us some photos of the interior? We might be able to make some suggestions that could help relieve his . . . angst?

[mandymon]

not sure if its stress about the cage since steve is totally fine as always.
Got no usb for the camera atm but i shall describe best i can

got the thickets cage, i know its not ideal but didnt know at the time. Plan on expanding it/making a bigger cage, as ive said before, once i can afford to do so.

Inside they have:
a wheel on the wall to the right at the back
a house/nesting box on the left to the back so the front is all run space

they have a wooden ladder with chew toys on it to the right goign to the top shelf with a daisy chain wood chew parallell to it and a stick bridge thing for chewing

the two shelves are empty since they destroyed their wooden seesaw last night (it was there mostly for more wooden chewing)

food bow on nesting box roof
water bottle on cage wall to the left mid shelf height

a rope hammock on the roof they jump in to and sleep in


ill doodle a pic lol

[mandymon]

there... MS paint to the rescue for now.... may see if i can steal a friends webcam to take actual pics

Attachments:

[deguconvert]

I don't think your set up is bad at all . . . it looks pretty good! But there is almost no where to go for some alone time, and that might be what is under Lord B's skin. He can't truly be apart if he wants to be, the cage is too small. I think cage size is a strong factor in what you are seeing right now, and the sooner you can add/increase the size, the better for your two boys.

[fred]

To me this sounds more like too much energy to burn than aggression. As long as the scraps / fights don't get more serious, I would not divide the cage to separate them. Increasing the size of the cage could help a lot. You should be able to find a second hand cage (gumtree for example) or a suitable furniture unit from a charity shop for very little money. Either of these can be easily combined with your present cage and if you find something, we will be able to help you with practical suggestions. In the meantime, there are possible improvements for your current cage to provide more opportunities for running and general enrichment. Do you have access to some branches?

[mandymon]

not quite sure how i could get him some privacy
i turned the next box round so it faces away from the room so he can hide (just better to draw it facing so it looks like more than a box) but he still never uses the thing, neither do lol

[moletteuk]

Is it possible to let them free range in your room, but have access to the cage at the same time, so they can come and go? They may enjoy the free time better this way and burn off some energy and relax more.

[mandymon]

i let them out about an hour or so a day just free roam, but im still there to make sure they don do anything stupid
but i find when he is out he just goes back in

[deguconvert]

I mean privacy more in the meaning of personal space that feels comfortable. So, with the thickets cage it is limited in space, which means that if he is feeling like he needs more personal space, it isn't available. He definitely feels at home in his cage and prefers it, since he just goes back in when he can be out . . . so . . . when you are able . . . increasing the cage size may soothe much of what you are seeing.

[mandymon]

i know but a wee hidey hole is the best i can do for a while

although he was a lot calmer tonight when he was with my dog ( he likes using gryffyn as a climbing frame and gyffyn seems to like them being out too) so hopefully its just a wee phase and he can wait a bit longer