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Post by lynette on Oct 4, 2023 14:31:36 GMT
Hi!
I have a degu called Mitsu, he's 7 i think or something like that so i know he's getting old.
In the past months hes been having problems with his eyes (ulcers) and bumblefoot, he also lost weight. We took him to the vet and got better, he still have a little bit of ulcer since it was a big one but its so much better.
Suddenly he lost a lof of weight, he's usually 260g in a healthy weight because hes quite big. Now hes at 214g this morning, hes not eating his food so we are giving him vegetables, nuts (not a lot because we know it's a treat) and herbs (he loooves dandelion). The thing is that he wants to eat but seems picky about it, we are currently on Oxbow Critical Care but he hates it so we are going to try with Harrisons since one of my late degus loved it when trying to gain weight. But he's still not gaining weight and loosing some of it.
We went to the vet again and tried to do a urine test, glucose levels were negative but protein and others were high, we knew it was his kidney. We did xray and one of his kidney has fluid in it, his liver had bumps and on the other side we didnt know what it was but it also had bumps (we did the xray when he was awake since we dont want to put him to sleep since hes weak). We think it could be cancer that has spread or something else. I think maybe it could be Amyloidosis in his kidney but im quite lost.
We did a fast glucose test and it showed 106 mg/dl, the vet said it was normal.
What's happening with him? Hes weak but has enough energy to eat some things and be picky about it, but he can't maintain his own body temperature so hes been sleeping with my sister. I cant stand the fact that we could loose him, we recently lost my childhood dog and its been really hard.
The vet asked about thyroid or hormone problems but i dont know anything about it and if it could be related. Im from Spain so theres not much info about them in here. We dont know what to do, we could do an ultrasound but we have to put him to sleep a little bit and we are scared.
Do you know what could be happening? Any information is well recieved, the vet and us are trying to do research but we are so lost! We want to help him!
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 4, 2023 15:56:43 GMT
To keep him going for now you can let him eat anything he wants to, you can mash vegetables up and add in nuts and seeds. He would also benefit from Oxbow Critical Care emergency food or the equivalent Supreme Recovery Plus food if you can get hold of them.
By far the most obvious and common cause of loss of appetite is dental issues. Did the vet check the teeth in the back of his mouth? Using a scope (otoscope)? Eye issues can be connected to overgrown teeth roots, this is also very common and should be visible on xray.
Liver, kidney, thyroid amd hormones aren't often tested or considered as a problem, mainly I think because there wouldn't be much hope of treatment. Glucose doesn't often become a problem in old age, it usually presents earlier.
Cancers and tumours are common in old age. The potential benefits of removal are not usually worth the risk in old age - tumours very often regrow after removal and the surgery is usually very hard on old degus.
Sometimes a steroid injection can help and although not diagnostic they can indicate an imflammatory condition, and they often help with tumours, it's a cheap and easy thing to try anyway, it might buy you some time.
If he seems cold you could use a microwave heatpad like a snugglesafe, or some kind of metal plugin heatpad if you can fully protect the wires or a heat lamp.
I'm sorry I can't offer more specific advice but my main points are make sure he has a full dental check and feed him anything he will eat and get some emergency recovery type food that you can syringe feed if necessary.
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Post by teemu on Oct 4, 2023 16:14:42 GMT
I don't have much to add to Molette's comprehensive answer, other than that if it looks like he has trouble eating solids, you can also try to crush the nuts and seeds into small pieces or even powder (if you have a mortal and pestle for example, or even just put them inside a folded piece of paper and crush them with something heavy like a rolling pin or any heavy object. Nuts and seeds have a lot of calories and nutrients, so if you don't have one of those dedicated recovery feeds, they will provide a lot of energy. They will usually also make any other food more enticing since degus tend to really like them.
Right now, it is more important that he gets food than whether the food is not optimal. Degus need to have food going through their system in a steady flow and it's very dangerous if they go without. So like was said, try to get him to eat, no matter if it's veggies, or baby food, or nuts, or whatever else that's not dangerous for them to eat.
If it looks like he's specifically avoiding eating solid things, then it's very likely that his mouth is sore, which is very likely due to the dental issues. Do you have access to pain medicine, like Meloxicam? The vet should be able to prescribe it. If he is in pain (either due to the teeth or any other reason), that may cause him to not have much energy or desire to eat.
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Post by lynette on Oct 4, 2023 17:07:53 GMT
To keep him going for now you can let him eat anything he wants to, you can mash vegetables up and add in nuts and seeds. He would also benefit from Oxbow Critical Care emergency food or the equivalent Supreme Recovery Plus food if you can get hold of them. By far the most obvious and common cause of loss of appetite is dental issues. Did the vet check the teeth in the back of his mouth? Using a scope (otoscope)? Eye issues can be connected to overgrown teeth roots, this is also very common and should be visible on xray. Liver, kidney, thyroid amd hormones aren't often tested or considered as a problem, mainly I think because there wouldn't be much hope of treatment. Glucose doesn't often become a problem in old age, it usually presents earlier. Cancers and tumours are common in old age. The potential benefits of removal are not usually worth the risk in old age - tumours very often regrow after removal and the surgery is usually very hard on old degus. Sometimes a steroid injection can help and although not diagnostic they can indicate an imflammatory condition, and they often help with tumours, it's a cheap and easy thing to try anyway, it might buy you some time. If he seems cold you could use a microwave heatpad like a snugglesafe, or some kind of metal plugin heatpad if you can fully protect the wires or a heat lamp. I'm sorry I can't offer more specific advice but my main points are make sure he has a full dental check and feed him anything he will eat and get some emergency recovery type food that you can syringe feed if necessary. Thank you! his teeth are good! he got checked recently because he had a sore mouth, his molars are okay and his incisors. In the xray they looked fine too, so i know its not his teeth. I think hes just tired, even with vegetables he takes his time to eat them, even with nuts too. His breathing gets agitated when hes eating too much, maybe because hes weak. I will talk with my vet about the injection, we are not concerned about money, whatever we can do to help him we would do it! We are getting Harrisons Critical Care, we currently have Oxbow but he hates it and we need him to eat even if its not perfect.
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Post by lynette on Oct 4, 2023 17:15:22 GMT
I don't have much to add to Molette's comprehensive answer, other than that if it looks like he has trouble eating solids, you can also try to crush the nuts and seeds into small pieces or even powder (if you have a mortal and pestle for example, or even just put them inside a folded piece of paper and crush them with something heavy like a rolling pin or any heavy object. Nuts and seeds have a lot of calories and nutrients, so if you don't have one of those dedicated recovery feeds, they will provide a lot of energy. They will usually also make any other food more enticing since degus tend to really like them. Right now, it is more important that he gets food than whether the food is not optimal. Degus need to have food going through their system in a steady flow and it's very dangerous if they go without. So like was said, try to get him to eat, no matter if it's veggies, or baby food, or nuts, or whatever else that's not dangerous for them to eat. If it looks like he's specifically avoiding eating solid things, then it's very likely that his mouth is sore, which is very likely due to the dental issues. Do you have access to pain medicine, like Meloxicam? The vet should be able to prescribe it. If he is in pain (either due to the teeth or any other reason), that may cause him to not have much energy or desire to eat. Thank you! Yeah we try to give him whatever he wants but even with that he's tired of eating. His teeth are okay, he got checked recently because he had a sore mouth, his molars and incisors are fine! It doesnt matter if its vegetables or nuts he just gets tired sometimes, he has to take his time eating. We tried Oxbow but he hates it, so we are going to try Harrisons Critical Care since it helped another degu i had, it seems they like it more. Whatever he can eat its a win to be honest. Hes actually taking Meloxicam and antibiotics, hes been on that for 5 days already and we didnt see any progress. We thought it was a urine infection thats why hes taking them but they are not helping at all.The vet said to keep giving him Meloxicam for some days more just in case it needs more time to get better and stop antibiotics.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 4, 2023 18:45:02 GMT
I'm sorry I can't offer any better ideas.
Increased breathing rate on eating could maybe mean a heart issue. The only heart issue I've known diagnosed is enlarged heart seen on xray, but there are possible meds for this. The other breathing related thing is generally heavier and more rapid breathing indicating pain.
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Post by teemu on Oct 4, 2023 19:03:36 GMT
Okay, it sounds like you've seen to a lot of things. As long as he eats, even if it's slow, it's fine. If it seems like he just stops, you will need to try to syringe feed him. At the moment, how is his general condition? Does he maintain any activity level (moving around the cage, doing anything, grooming himself etc), or is he just laying around? If you can feel around him, does it seem like there is some location that is very painful, or is there heat or swelling anywhere? He's probably been examined many times already, but I figure it can't hurt to ask. It does sound like he is in a poor way and it's none of the usual suspects. Your description of his tests does suggest that there might be something rather serious going on, since protein in urine is usually due to kidneys failing (which matches with the fact that one of his kidneys has fluid buildup). It could be due to a cancer, especially with the liver issues, or some other similarly serious thing. For now, keep taking care of his immediate concerns (keeping warm, eating, drinking etc), giving him his planned medications and monitoring how his condition progresses. I know that it's not an answer you were hoping to hear, but it sounds like you are doing everything correctly, and have already seen to a lot of the usual reasons for these issues. As far as I can think of, at least.
As sad as it is, it may be his time. I can't say anything definitive about that, of course, but it at least does not seem like you are neglecting anything or have missed anything. Hopefully, the vet visit and Molette's suggestion help. I'm hoping you all the best.
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Post by lynette on Oct 8, 2023 17:59:57 GMT
moletteuk teemuthank you so much for taking your time to help, unfortunately we had to put him to sleep. He was getting worse each day and we knew he was in so much pain. He gave us so many good times and memories we knew he didn't deserve to live in pain nor die in a painful way. We love him so much we just couldn't stand to see him like that. He started to spit the food and didn't want to eat what he loved, he wasn't sleeping well and started to squeak each time he was uncomfortable. He wasn't feeling good and we knew it was a matter of time he would pass away, thats why we decided that he deserved better. It wasn't easy but we know it was the best for him, we are devastated. He went peacefully and he's with his brothers. Thank you for this community, it helped my three degus, it's time to say goodbye to this after all. Hope everything goes well to you all and your degus, we wish you the best.
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Post by savvy on Oct 8, 2023 18:18:02 GMT
I am so very sorry! I think you made the right decision at the right time and we know its never easy.
Please keep in touch, even if you decide not to have more degus, please keep in touch.
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 8, 2023 19:25:27 GMT
You did everything you could, it was the right decision to ease his passing. I'm very sorry for your loss, I'm sorry about your dog too, such a difficult time for you.
Rest peacefully Mitsu x
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Post by teemu on Oct 9, 2023 5:47:44 GMT
I'm so sorry to hear that! You really did do everything you could, but it was a very serious and bad situation. I'm sure that you caring for him helped him feel more comfortable in the end, and he knew that you were looking out for him. And you did make the right decision, I agree that it really did not sound like something that waiting would have made any better.
I hope you all the best. Come by if you wish to talk, not all people here are those who have degus (for now or at all).
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