Degu more sleepy than usual

[cincinnutnut]

Nutmeg has always been pretty active - she loves running on her wheel and kickboxing her toys. She has always slept more than her sister, especially when its sunny out (she LOVES to "sun tan"). However, the last few days I've noticed she's been gradually more sleepy than usual and even when she's not sleeping, she kind of just sits there, sometimes with her eyes half closed. This isn't super unusual for her as she's done it before (lazy days), but it's been a few days so I'm kind of worried. Otherwise she looks perfectly fine - teeth look great, no discharge from nose or eyes, breathing and pulse normal, urine and stool normal pretty normal as far as I can tell. I can't tell how much she's eating and drinking because they're two in the cage, but she ate a treat in front of me yesterday and hasn't lost any weight. Today I tried giving her treats three times and she only took it once, though I don't know if she had just eaten or not when I offered the treats. Her fur is a bit poofier than usual, but it just looks the same as when she's sleepy rather than all messed up like when she's scared. When I open the cage door she's a bit slower than usual to come out, but that's also not super unusual as she often plays "catch me if you can". 

Overall, she just seems to be more sluggish than usual for the last few days, though no big red flags. She has trouble falling asleep without Cincin, and Cincin has been refusing to take naps lately, so it's possible that she's just a bit sleep deprived. I'm just worried and would like others' opinions. 

By the way, she's a bit over 3 years old. 

[savvy]

Mmmm, its a difficult one.

Do you know if she's been on heat in the last few days? They can get quite sleepy for a couple of days afterwards. But they do get sleep deprived if they don't get their usual kip.

Other than that, I have no ideas other than monitor or book a health check with the vet.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help.

[cincinnutnut]

How do you tell if they're on heat? I don't think so though, as I have new observations from the day: she's a little less sluggish now, I took her out and she did roll around (she rolls around everywhere) and she ran a little bit playing tag with me. She's also less poofy. Still not as hyper as usual but better. However, she did lose some weight. I tried giving her some critical care and some peanut butter (which she loves) and she took a few bites then lost interest. A few times, she cried a bit while swallowing. Not a big cry like when she's scared, but a little one as if she stubbed her toe. She ate half a cherry tomato with no problem though. Maybe she has a sore throat, like a little cut or canker like humans get often? I did examine her mouth the best I could and didn't see anything, so it must be something on the inside. Her stomach seems fine. If she isn't better in a few days I'll take her to the vet and ask for a scope or something, if that's possible with degus. It worries me that I can't see it. Cincin has mouth issues frequently but they're always fully external so I can see exactly what's going on. In this case I can't and I hate that.

[teemu]

This sounds like it could be issues with her teeth, especially if she is not eating things she normally loves. The sluggishness could be a sign that she's in pain and not feeling up to things, and signs of pain while eating are definitely a strong indicator that she could have dental spurs or similar. It's quite common for degus to get these over time, and they're usually the first suspect when they start showing symptoms like that. I recommend taking her to the vet as soon as possible, as those issues will only get worse if not seen to by a specialist. Degus are very vulnerable to periods of fasting since their digestive system requires food to pass through constantly, and if this isn't happening, it can cause them serious damage.

Aside from that, I know it's not the number one issue right now, but it sounds like she is getting some quite rich treats that are not very suited to degus. Peanut butter often contains sugar, and cherry tomatoes are also not recommended for degus. Since they are really vulnerable to health issues from unsuitable foods, I definitely recommend reviewing her diet and treats after this more acute issue is dealt with. We'll be happy to advise you on healthy treats that are more suitable!

[moletteuk]

If she has lost weight, along with the change in behaviour, I think I would get her checked over by a vet and make sure they have a good look in her mouth (yes, with a scope).

[cincinnutnut]

She's back to herself now other than still crying a little when eating certain things and hasn't gained the weight back yet, but she's back to being very active and excited which is comforting. She's also eating more than the last two days now (only a little on her own but if I give her food she eats more). I will take her to the vet soon if she doesn't stop crying. The good thing is, she doesn't have any discharge from her eyes, she isn't drooling, and she isn't continuously pawing at her mouth like Cincin was when she needed her teeth trimmed. I still think it's more likely to be her throat as it seems to bother her when swallowing rather than chewing, but of course there's no way to tell until a scope is done. I'm just very nervous with taking Nutnut to the vet as our previous vet was pretty bad, and I worry a lot about anesthesia but I will do it if she doesn't get better.

As for the treats, the peanut butter we use is natural and only contains peanuts. Critical Care, peanut butter, and cherry tomatoes are very rare treats for Nutnut and Cincin, I was giving them to her at that occasion as they are some of her favorites and I wanted to encourage her to eat (of course Cincin had some too because she got jealous). Their everyday pellets are degu appropriate, and we also always have a bowl of various plants, hay, and flowers always filled for them. They also get fresh veggies (though they don't like them very much) and some sugar-free dried ones. They get a pinch of oats when they need to be weighed, and some other human food like nuts and seeds with a frequency that follows Degutopia. They also have some degu-specific treats that they'll get one of about every other day unless they're sick or sad and need encouragement to eat food. They get lots of exercise too (play on my bed 1-2 times a day, run around the hallway, and they have a large cage with a good wheel). Could their diet be a bit better? Yeah, probably, but they're picky and I'd rather them slightly pig out than not eat, especially since they're small compared to other degus. We check all ingredients and I compare with Degutopia before giving them anything. I also do frequent health checks of their eyes, ears, bellies, urine and stool, weight, and water consumption. Thanks for letting me know though!

[teemu]

Okay, it's good that she's better about her mouth. It could be that it was just some sort of an acute thing that's resolving. Do keep monitoring her as you say, and especially if her weight starts dropping, or she keeps having the issues, bring her in for a checkup.

It does sound like you've looked up a lot of information on degu care and feeding, which is the main thing I wanted to emphasize, so I don't see any real issues with the situation. Since those are just special occasion things and not regular, they shouldn't cause issues in a healthy degu.

Do keep us posted on her situation

[deguconvert]

I would still have a vet look into her mouth with the scope. She could have spurs that are piercing her tongue or cheek and causing pain when she tries to eat. The fact that she isn't eating much on her own is concerning to me as it seems she is preserving her energy for the special bits she gets from you.

[cincinnutnut]

She's pretty much fully back to normal now! Today she ate a spoonful of Critical Care and a "cookie" in one sitting without crying at all. I also saw her eating some pellets on her own, not sure how many but it was at least a few, and her weight is stable (hasn't gone back up yet but it hasn't gone down). We also got her a new toy and she's already chewed a whole piece off. I have surgery on Monday, but if she isn't better this weekend I'll take her to the vet after my surgery (I should be home the day off).

[cincinnutnut]

Update: She's completely normal now, eating a ton, drinking normally, and playing and acting normally. No more crying or twitching at all. Most of her weight is back too. All good, thank you so much!

[moletteuk]

I'm happy to hear this. I'm sure you'll keep an eye on her in case it happens again.

[deguconvert]

I, too, am very happy to hear that she is back to normal, eating very well, and back to her normal weight! WOO HOO! Worth a celebration!

[cincinnutnut]

So she has been completely fine since that update. Except today I came back from the hospital and noticed her mouth was full of foamy spit and her cheek and whisker were a bit wet. She was fine this morning and before leaving there was like 2 drops of water on her cheek though I assumed it was from drinking as she is a messy drinker. Her weight is fine, she ate fine, her belly doesnt seem bloated and she didnt cry when I examined it (other than the sound she uses when she's telling me to go away cause I'm annoying lol), she seems normal. I'm just very worried and wondering if anyone else has experienced this? My mum thinks she was just woke up from a really good nap, or she learnt to blow bubbles. But I'm worried. It looked like a bubble bath in her mouth.

[teemu]

It is possible that this is a case of regurgitation. I'm not sure if degus can vomit, but they should be able to regurgitate (it's essentially a process of expelling something in the esophagus before it enters the stomach, and animals that cannot vomit do this if they eat something that causes a bad feeling). I remember a situation in which one of my pet rats, way back when, expelled a small amount of food he had just eaten (I guess the piece was slightly too big or something). There was some amount of foamy drool. This is not dangerous in itself, but may signal that the animal has eaten something they should not have, so you should definitely keep an eye out on her.

It could also be that she is drooling a lot, and it keeps pooling in her mouth and foaming due to mouth movements. This could mean there's a dental problem or something else. Is she eating normally now, and has there been any more foam?

If you notice anything off in her, or if it keeps happening, take her to a vet as soon as possible.

Also, to eliminate an obvious answer: could there have been traces of dish soap or something like that in their bottles or food bowls or anything like that?

[deguconvert]

I'm also thinking dental, but all her previous issues that seemed to clear up, also sounded like something dental, or some kind of painful problem in the mouth. I think you should have her looked at, and make sure the vet looks in her mouth with a scope.

[deguconvert]

I'm also thinking dental, but all her previous issues that seemed to clear up, also sounded like something dental, or some kind of painful problem in the mouth. I think you should have her looked at, and make sure the vet looks in her mouth with a scope.

[cincinnutnut]

I've kept a very close eye on her since I noticed the foaminess and she has been totally fine, eating great, acting herself, and no more foamy spit or any drool at all. My guess is she ate something she didn't like (salt block that she hates but keeps biting for some reason is a possibility?). If it happens again or if she has ANY other symptom, I'm definitely taking her to the vet. She seems great now though.

[moletteuk]

I don't think there is a good harmless explanation for foam, especially when combined with the previous information, I tend to think it is likely to be due to a difficulty in swallowing, perhaps from the tongue being trapped by a tooth spur, that is certainly what is overwhelmingly springing to my mind anway. I wouldn't delay in getting her to the vet. I understand it is difficult if you are reliant on your parents.