Introducing 2 new adult males to 3 11 weeks old babies.

[lindie]

I have 3 11 week old babies that are born at my house which I want to introduce to 2 new adult males which I adopted last Saturday. I don't have any experience with introducing degus, and since I want to introduce a (larger) group of males together I could really use some help. I also have 4 females in a separate cage which the boys can smell which doesn't make it easier for the new boys I think (the females are mum, aunt and the two sisters from the baby boys, so the babies don't mind the females since they are one big family) 

The cage is a double critter nation split into 3 separate cages at the moment. The girls are in the lower 2 and right middle, the baby boys are in the left middle and top cage and the new boys are in the right top cage. The baby boys and the new boys have cardboard between the walls so that they can not see each other (I have not seen them interact through the cardboard).

I am not sure when to start the introduction process, also because the new boys still hump each other occasionally (they wait and sit still for the other to finish, so that is a good sign) which I guess is because they moved to a new environment with good smelling females nearby.

Although I don't want to rush the process, I don't want to wait to long since the 2 new boys are a bit bored in their single critter nation without wheel, and the babies are getting older and more mature everyday!

The new boys already behave like they are at home, and both groups have not shown any interest in the other group behind the cardboard.

I have done my research but have still a few questions:
- When can I start the introduction process. Should I wait a couple more days?  or can I start it today.
- With what should I start? With removing the cardboard, or with sharing their bath sand. (And how do I exactly let them share the sand, Do I move the sand bath to the other cage everyday?)
- Or should I start with placing them in a neutral territory with a divider between them before removing the cardboard?
- And when can I move soil between both cages? 

[bouncy]

I think your biggest issue will be space. More degus mean more running space! If you don't have enough, the introductions may fail purely because of territory.

On the other hand, you're in a great position. Sometimes (not always) adult degus will instantly adopt pups that appear. I've had success with an adult introduced to two 12 week old pups, and two adults introduced to two five week old pups. It doesn't always work, in which case you'll need to take the long way around. This thread should give you all the steps:
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guide

Try them now, if you like, in a neutral space, and see if they do get adopted. Be prepared to leap in to the rescue, though.

Ideally, you want to have them living side by side, swapping substrate and sharing a dust bath, with positive reactions, before you start face to face meetings. Ideally, you'll find they pile on each side of the bars next to each other, or even move their nests to sleep together.

[moletteuk]

I'm not following the housing situation, do you really mean one double critter nation split into 3 housing 9 degus??

3 degus can fit in a double critter nation if you extend the half shelves into full shelves.

[lindie]

Jan 10, 2022 18:55:32 GMT moletteuk said:

I'm not following the housing situation, do you really mean one double critter nation split into 3 housing 9 degus??

3 degus can fit in a double critter nation if you extend the half shelves into full shelves.

The girls already have 3 critter nation units.

In total I have 6 critter nation units between the 9 degus. I call it "het degoe rijk" which means the degu kingdom or sometimes the degu wall, beacause it is so big (180 cm long, 180 cm high and 60 cm deep)

No no, they will end up sharing 3 units with the 3 smaller shelves (which comes with the cage) and one large level (90 x 60cm)

At the moment the 3 babies live in a double and the new goos in a single. After introduction the cage will be combined.

[lindie]

Jan 10, 2022 15:12:04 GMT bouncy said:

I think your biggest issue will be space. More degus mean more running space! If you don't have enough, the introductions may fail purely because of territory.

On the other hand, you're in a great position. Sometimes (not always) adult degus will instantly adopt pups that appear. I've had success with an adult introduced to two 12 week old pups, and two adults introduced to two five week old pups. It doesn't always work, in which case you'll need to take the long way around. This thread should give you all the steps:
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guide

Try them now, if you like, in a neutral space, and see if they do get adopted. Be prepared to leap in to the rescue, though.

Ideally, you want to have them living side by side, swapping substrate and sharing a dust bath, with positive reactions, before you start face to face meetings. Ideally, you'll find they pile on each side of the bars next to each other, or even move their nests to sleep together.

Well on recommendation from the person I adopted them from I have removed the cardboard today, and the response from the babies was unexpexted. my degu Elphias decided he did not want anything to do with it and went away, Theodore sat in a corner puffed up  screaming (I filmed it and wil upload it to flickr later) and Narfi did al the "work" "defending" them by teeth cattering and tail wagging. The new goos were very intrested but had some minor dominance issues between them but they did some "boxing" for a few seconds a few times  Magic (he does not have a new name yet) was chosen as the alfa and did the tail wagging and teeth chattering while Darwin was squeaking submissively. It took a hour to calm down. And it is really peacefull now. I even saw Darwin sleeping next to the bars while Narfi was on the other side investigating Darwin. The new boys are doing their own thing at the moment while the babies (all 3 them this time) are still very intresed in them, but without tailwagging and teeth chatterig now.

[deguconvert]

Jan 10, 2022 19:40:40 GMT lindie said:

Jan 10, 2022 18:55:32 GMT moletteuk said:

I'm not following the housing situation, do you really mean one double critter nation split into 3 housing 9 degus??

3 degus can fit in a double critter nation if you extend the half shelves into full shelves.

The girls already have 3 critter nation units.

In total I have 6 critter nation units between the 9 degus. I call it "het degoe rijk" which means the degu kingdom or sometimes the degu wall, beacause it is so big (180 cm long, 180 cm high and 60 cm deep)

No no, they will end up sharing 3 units with the 3 smaller shelves (which comes with the cage) and one large level (90 x 60cm)

At the moment the 3 babies live in a double and the new goos in a single. After introduction the cage will be combined.

Lindie . . . could you take a photo to post here of the degu wall, and then outline through photoshop or something similar, each area occupied by the different groups. Labels for the groups would probably help as well. "Females, pups, new males." That way we can see what you see and will understand it better. Even with what you describe above, it sounds way to small for 5 degus, and I think I'm just not getting what you're saying.

Maybe you already have a photo that you can work with? I feel like I remember you posting a photo?

[deguconvert]

Lindie I would also like to warn you against the great potential that teeth will be used to bite whatever part can be reached of the degu on the other side. Feet, tails, ears, sides, bottoms, noses, whatever can be reached. Unless there is enough distance . . . at least 1 cm or more . . . but that will not protect tails or any limbs that are reaching through.

Having all your cages joined as they are are great for the space they create for the degus, but it makes it hard to have safety gaps when you are introduces degus that are unfamiliar with each other.

I would recommend that you start swapping soil between the cages, and the sand bath as well. I would share the sand by half days in the other cage, so that each day they get fresh encounters and are daily rolling in the new scents.

You do have more than one sand bath for the degus? Or do you share just one between ALL the degus?

[lindie]

I just made a video explaning my cage and how the sub cages are separated from each other. 
Here is the link to the video:  youtu.be/6tWF1Y9mMW8

[deguconvert]

WOW!!! That is a massive cage and you have wonderful plans for it! I feel very satisfied with what you have shared, and you have completely cleared up my confusion. Thank you so much, Lindie for doing that video. They all look very healthy, and your new boys are so cute!! The dark one makes me think of a Sun Bear because of the white patches across his chest, and the white one makes me think of an Arctic Fox in all his white glory.

I truly hope they will bond very well with each other! Now that I've had the privilege of seeing them . . . they feel like family. LOL!

[teemu]

Whoa, that's some serious dedication! It's a real wall of degus!

It looks like a very nice setup, and the ideas about adding new levels like that seem good too. Very systematic. Excellent work