Two sisters who like to fight badly once or twice a year.

[stupink]

So this is my third pair of degu so I know how a lot about how they behave but I thought I'd just ask if theres any advice as I think these two have been given every chance.

So they came as a pair, I kept them together until one day probably a year later they had a bad fight and one was limping (dominant one), so I had to take her vets, and keep them separated.

I did the usual routine to re-mix together and it worked and they got on fine, then had another bad fight and off to the vets again limping.(has always healed okay, "almost" perfect).

So again separated.  Sounds like they just don't get on right.. 

Well.. not exactly. and this is the confusion.. what I've learnt is the re-introduction period is totally un-necessary with them, you can separate them for months, then just pop them in the same cage and they don't blink an eye, theres no boxing or anything, they just walk past each other, then a bit later once finished exploring the cage they will groom each other for 30mins or so like nothings ever happened, then snuggle up and have a nap, and you could leave them months thinking its fine, then one day they'll start to properly fight again..

It's not cage size as its a twin cage-on-cage both parts double layer
It's not after cleaning.
It's not after feeding.
It really is seemingly just out of the blue..

The only thing I have learnt is the cause of the fight is the dominant degu.. maybe they do a bit of boxing, and then mounts the sub etc as usual in that scenario, and the sub gives in totally sits there facing away lets it happen showing she's ok with it, but the dominant one just wont let it go.. and keeps pestering her until she moves away, then starts again, and I think quite literally the sub just eventually gets really fed-up of constant attention and pushes away and the fight starts.
It's like the dominant one isn't recognising the sub has yielded? but even I can see she clearly has.

For now I have blocked the two cage connector off, and they live one top cage one bottom.. they do interact with warbles etc, but can't see each other.
Every now and then I take them both out and put them in a pets at home cage together to have a bit of company and they behave just fine, but I cannot trust them alone long term and I can see they really miss each other, I know they'd be fine all day, week and probably month, and then one day I'd come home to one limping bad and know they've been at the fur ball of death.

Compared to my other two pairs, both of these are a little odd, they're blue's rather than the normal, behave just like the others bar they have never liked to be handled, even after many years of trying to tame them while they will come out the cage onto my legs if I'm sat down, they will only ever put their front paws on my hand while offering a snack, and have never climbed on my shoulders or anything. Because of that they don't really get free-roam time as it can then take 2-3hours to catch them again to get them in the cage.

Am I missing anything that could be this trigger or that I could do to stop this happening so they can have some company again?

[moletteuk]

The only thing occurring to me is that one or both of them could be coming into heat and that making them more argumentative and a bit crazy. It's the way you describe them going back together with no problem at all that makes me think it might be hormones and the way the fighting comes right out of the blue and humping activity causing aggro.

Degus in heat usually go off their food, become a lot more active and can hump and groom their cagemate in quite an agitated way that can lead to fighting when the other one gets fed up. They can be obviously strongly on heat for about 3 days and it occurs every 3 weeks or so and usually stronger October to March but can carry on all year. Does any of that strike a chord?

[deguconvert]

Watching!

[stupink]

Mar 2, 2021 16:42:04 GMT moletteuk said:

The only thing occurring to me is that one or both of them could be coming into heat and that making them more argumentative and a bit crazy. It's the way you describe them going back together with no problem at all that makes me think it might be hormones and the way the fighting comes right out of the blue and humping activity causing aggro.

Degus in heat usually go off their food, become a lot more active and can hump and groom their cagemate in quite an agitated way that can lead to fighting when the other one gets fed up. They can be obviously strongly on heat for about 3 days and it occurs every 3 weeks or so and usually stronger October to March but can carry on all year. Does any of that strike a chord?

This really does make sense! many thanks for taking the time to reply
Since splitting them up, the dominant degu has done a new thing every now and then, I've never seen her like it when they've been together.

Typically she's a bit lazy, and a bit overweight as a result, but every so often now she goes hyperactive, jumps into the wheel squeaks, runs like mad, jumps out squeaks, jumps to the top layer, squeaks.. sits in her hammock... then barely before settling jumps back into the wheel squeaks, then jumps out and squeaks,, and continues all day long pretty much..

So I guess this energy was being focused towards my other degu and that caused the problems..

So any thoughts on what I could do to prevent this and keep them together? are their heat cycles predictive enough i could somehow work it out and keep them together 2 out of 3 weeks then separate for a week? 
Any safe options to stop her going into heat maybe?

[moletteuk]

That does sound like hormones.

Cycles are fairly regular every 3 weeks or so, there's nothing you can do to stop it happening. I suppose you could look for a neutered male, but they can be hard to find.

I think it depends how much time you are at home and can keep an eye on them. If you are at home a lot, I would just do the odd time out and separate them for an hour or two when she is most hormonal and upsetting the other degu. I suppose alternatively you could separate them for the worst day or two of her cycle, I would think that would be enough to get them over the worst, but it depends on the degu how badly affected she is. If she is really badly affected and sent crazy for a week every three weeks, then I really would look into getting a neutered male for her.

Hopefully you should find her cycles get a bit less strong over the summer half of the year, but that doesn't always have a significant effect. First step is get a calendar and see if you can figure out the timing so you know when to be vigilant. It should get easier to spot the signs know you know what to look for, so hopefully you will be able to see her escalating behaviour and then it tailing off.

[stupink]

I don't think I can risk having three separate degu if they didn't get on, so I will start logging her loopy times to see if I can get a predictable schedule as you say. If I can't then they will just have to stay separate and have the occasional shared time in the smaller cage for grooming etc.
Thankyou so much for your time and advice

[deguconvert]

We had a member who had a female with rather extreme reactions to her cycle. The degu was actually losing health as a result of how hard her cycles were on her. The forum member looked for and found a neutered male, introduced them (as I recall there were two females in this group) and things went really well. Her cycles leveled out, her health improved, her behavior became calmer, and it was a complete success.

The presence of the male was the missing piece of the health puzzle for her. Could be the same for your girl.