Newbie needing advice 😊

[harrythedegu]

Hi all!
im new here, am hoping that this forum is a nice place as the last one I went on, the people were not very nice to me and very judgemental of my situation (which you will understand when I explain!) But need some advice for my little guy who I will introduce to you!
I have a very happy incredibly cheeky little man called Harry. He is a single Degu (which is where I know the nasty comment tend to start 😕). He is a single Degu as when we adopted him at 8 months old, he had had a really bad start to his life bless him. His litter had attacked him so badly he spent all of his early days in the sick bay where we got him. Attempts at introducing him to other degus also didn’t go well, and when we got him he had only just become healthy and was lucky to be alive considering how badly hurt he was (he even has scars on his little tail and both ears where the attack was so bad, as it wasn’t just one other Degu that got him from the first fight, it was literally his whole litter 😢).

Anyway! He is an incredibly happy little man, has a lot of trust issues but we have come a long way since we got him (we have had him for just over a year now) so he has gone from quivering and hiding, to letting me touch his head and coming to greet me, but we are working on some new ideas so he can become more tame. He has a friend who is a rabbit who likes to sit next to his cage (they don’t have any contact) but they tend to sit next to each other happily,  and he is very social, all in all the happiest creature I’ve probably ever met!

so the advice I actually need, is I’ve noticed in the last few days he has chipped one of his top teeth, and lost of of his bottom, possibly even chipping the other bottom tooth but I can’t be sure. He is eating perfectly normal, no irregular behaviour, definitely not off his food at all 😂 no change whatsoever. He is bar chewer annoyingly so as I’ve seen with many other gu’s! How long roughly does it take their teeth to grow back and what could’ve caused this?
i should add has he has plenty of chew toys so is not lacking in that area!
also no judgement please, I know a lot of people will have an opinion over him being a single gu but I’ve had a lot of nasty comments or pushy advice before so would really appreciate genuine advice over just his teeth as I know I’ve got one happy boy (I’m sorry I have to say that too, the last forum I joined when I first got him wouldn’t help just made mean comments without appreciating the situation). 

Thanks!  😁

[savvy]

Welcome to the forum! And hello Harry, it's great to meet you both.

First of all, we don't judge on this forum, we know everyone's situation is different and sometimes circumstances are difficult.

Harry's teeth could have been chipped in a variety of ways; weak spot causing a tooth fracture, biting something too hard, even stumbling and hitting his teeth. Can you tell us what his diet is? There may be something that can get tweaked to prevent weak spots.

Also, a degus teeth grow at approximately 1mm each day, which is why they constantly chew everything to keep their teeth down, so as long as he's chewing and eating normally, it shouldn't take long to even out, but you may need to keep an eye on the alignment of his teeth so that he doesn't get one tooth going off in the wrong direction.

In terms of him being attacked by his cage mates, there are a number of reasons this could have happened, so I'm going to ask a really silly question, are you sure Harry is male? I ask because I adopted a male degu who had attacked all of his cage mates quite severely for no apparent reason, and it turned out 'he' was a she who was trying to fight off unwanted attention from 5 males. Mistakes in sexing degus happens frequently.

We are here to help, so please don't be afraid to ask any questions you need to, there are no silly questions when it comes to degus.

[moletteuk]

Could you say again what the situation is with his incisors, there's a typo in the description? Is it one chipped upper, one lower totally gone and the second chipped? If the lower one has come out at the root it will take longer to grow back because they are so long, probably up to 3 weeks. You would need to watch for them growing back uneven, he may be able to work around and sort it himself, but if one is much more damaged than the others then top one might easily overgrow and need trimming back.

Definitely worth looking at diet, calcium content, forage and vitamin d with any dental issue although it might just be an accident.

[deguconvert]

Hello Harrythedegu, and welcome to the forum!


I'm going to comment on the history that poor little Harry experienced. It sounds to me like you got him from a pet store? Which doesn't really figure largely into what I am going to say, because the "cause" of his bullying can happen in any place degus are kept, if the policies, or knowledge of degu needs is less than accurate. Please understand, I'm not commenting on his current home conditions.

Having gone through several litters of pups and observing them, I think that what happened in that store is A. There were a lot of pups in the one cage. B. The cage was not large enough to support that many pups. C. Harry was the lowest rung in their social hierarchy, and needing to change their population numbers to better suite their conditions, they were trying to "give him the bums rush" so to speak. Pet stores in general, give much less space to their "stock" than what they benefit from, and seldom do they give what is needed. The idea is to move the product through and out, without costing too much money in the process, which often means, these animals are neglected to some degree, and suffer from the confined area. With social animals in the wild, there is a fine balance between their numbers, the territory they occupy, and the amount of food stock and water that is naturally available to sustain them. These instincts will still be functioning (even if somewhat impaired by captivity) in them and demanding that they reduce their numbers by either chasing a member (or more) out of the colony or killing them if needed. In a cage, chasing them out is impossible. I am thinking they were still trying to chase him out. If they had reached the kill stage, he would have been killed. This is no fault of the degus, but of the store, it's policies, and it's management. This does not mean that Harry will never again be able to have degu companionship. Have you ever considered finding him a female degu companion? Just asking . . . not pressing.


Degus require a lot of space, and having learned and recognized that, one of our past members worked with us to develop a cage size recommendation that we follow. So that you can read it, here is the link. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations Sometimes bar chewing is the result of wanting more space. Just as often it is simply because the degus likes the feel of it, or is bored, or lonely, or wants out of that cage to run around or be with their human.

[harrythedegu]

Thank you everyone for your replies!
savvy Harry is one for being a little clumsy so that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Thank you for all your advice! Yes harry is definitely a male, but very good point. His diet is lots of meadow hay, degu friendly nuggets (I buy the bag from pets at home), water and degu friendly linseed treats every now and then. I regret to say i've not been one to give him veg, partially due to I thought I was doing the right thing and didn't realise how important it was for them to have veg every week, and partially because of worrying about him having too much sugar in his diet, so Im feeling a little like a bad degu mum at the moment! I've been reading into good veg to give degu's so i can start giving him some. I've read celery, dried basil, broccoli and there were a few other bits were good to give once a week. I also read a pinch of porridge oats (with no additives) and a few sunflower seeds a week were good for them and good to help me tame him. Would you be able to tell me what you feed yours and how often to give me an idea of good foods for him please?

moletteuk yes sorry about the typo. With his top teeth one is chipped, one is fine. With his bottom teeth, one is missing and the other is possibly chipped but I cant be 100% sure. What teeth are still there are lovely and orange however and he is having no problem throwing about and gnawing on all his other toys. Yes i will be definetely keeping an eye on them growing back. Would you be able to recommend anything good regarding calcium content and vitamin D in his diet, or anything else I should give him? Thank you for your advice!

deguconvert Yes we rehomed him from a pet store, we had seen him in the adoption area for so long and broke our hearts to see him there so scared. He is a whole different character now, but yes I do agree they view them more as 'stock' rather than the lovely creatures they are. I think your right there also, with how many pups they had, and yes harry must've been the lowest rung. Fair point, I have never witnessed a degu fight so didn't realise if they wanted to kill, they would, so chasing out harry sounds likely! We have thought about getting him a friend before, but have also always been incredibly uneasy on the idea due to his first 8 months of his life being in their sick bay. The guy that sold him to us is a huge Degu enthusiast himself, with degu's of his own, and told us about the fight and how bad it was, being the worst he had seen, and what state it left Harry in, and how reintroducing hadnt gone well. So safe to say we have been very sceptical on the idea. Thank you for your advice, and for the link! Thats very kind of you and I shall have a read, thank you for it

I made a little progress tonight and was able to rub the back of his head for a few moments without him running away, which is massive for Harry so im very proud of that!

[savvy]

Pets at home nuggets are not the best, I must admit, I had one degu back foot them out of the cage at me when I first brought him home and put him on the mixes, lol.

I tend to feed mine on SAB degu mix, Ratatouille mix, Paradiso (these three are from hansemanns), Timothy hay (pets at home) degu seed mix, pumpkin seeds, dandelion root, sunflower seeds and a mix I put together myself from Ratrations (plantain, dandelion, chives, Apple leaves, raspberry leaves, blackcurrant leaves, peppermint, blossom mix, parsley stalks and rose petels.) I give them a few science selective nuggets as well, but they don't eat many. I've put some links below to our feeding section to give you some ideas.

They also get the odd piece of hazelnut, and a beetroot biccy (but only if they're good)

Getting their food right is a steep learning curve and most start off with nuggets and hay, so you're not alone there.

It's important to remember that 90% of their diet should be forage and hay so variety is the key. It's also not as expensive as it may think either if you can mix yourself own blends, or buy in bulk.

deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15657/bought-herb-leaf-flower-mixes
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15335/edible-plants-list
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15794/internet-shops-specialist-degu-foods
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15616/safe-tree-woods-bark-list

[savvy]

deguworld.proboards.com/thread/8772/safe-plants-herbs-leaves-consumption

Forgot to link in this one. Apologies!

[deguconvert]

Being able to rub him on the BACK of his head . . . to me that is a BIG thing! Degus do not like to be picked from above . . . as in a hand decending over top of them. It is too much like the swoop of a predator, coming in to grab them up. In my mind, having a hand hover above their heads and bodies, is similar, and also . . . none of my degus liked it much at all if a hand was right above. I would stroke sides, under chins, and rarely I could stroke under an armpit or a belly, but to touch the back of the head is not something that happened. I think you have been given a big trust!

Well done!

[harrythedegu]

@savvy thank you very much for the links! I look forward to getting him new foods to try now! haha thats brilliant they were very honest in showing you they didn't like them!

Thank you for letting me know all the food you use! I took a look and hansemanns website but is unfortunately not in my language but through reading the other links and talking to you guys im confident in what to look for now and am excited to get him some new bits. I can easily get timothy hay though so that's no problem

deguconvert since then he actually let me get a few strokes on his side which was HUGE for us, couldnt believe he had let me! Other than that he has been his usual happy self, he enjoys sitting on his highest perch and having conversations with me. I will talk, and he will give very gentle chirps back, and we talk for ages (anyone who saw would think i'm mad haha)!! Do you have any tips to help tame him at all please?

[savvy]

I don't think you need any tips on taming, you seem to be doing great, much better than I've managed with at least one of mine, lol.

If you are going to order from Hansemanns, Google will translate the site for you if you set up translation. Also, their website may say free postage to the UK, but it's because their website can't calculate postage to the UK. They normally message you to say what the postage costs are and you just make an additional payment (I tend to use PayPal because I don't get charged international transaction fees) or wait for them to confirm and pay the whole cost.

It usually takes just under a week to arrive, which isn't too bad.

You can telephone ratrations and they will tell you what they have in stock for degus. I know they've just had new stuff in which isn't on the website yet (I placed an order last week and they mentioned it.) Delivery from Ratrations is usually the next day.

I've limited experience with the other suppliers, so I can't say what they are like.

Just remember to introduce any new food slowly as sudden changes can upset their digestive system a bit.

You'll be able to tell from his reactions if he likes it or not, lol.

[moletteuk]

Playpen and working out his favourite treats are your best bet for taming. And accepting that he probably will never enjoy touching and stroking so giving him the space to come to you and offer the contact he chooses, this can be the most rewarding thing.

Since we have a friendly dialogue established now, I hope, I would like to mention that we are available and willing to talk about introduction options in a no pressure way. I'm wondering if other people have yelled at you to introduce him to a friend at all costs, but haven't actually invited you to talk about your personal fears or blocks or mentioned any of the ways to make it easier such as extended side by side living or considering neutering and getting a female. Anyway, you know where we are.

[deguconvert]

Playpen and favorite treats, as Moletteuk says, are very persuasive for bonding and taming. If you can get into the playpen with him, LAY ON THE FLOOR, and let him run all over you. Figure out his favorite treat . . . which will mean having a few different things on hand to try them with him, so DON'T buy in large quantities until you know his reaction to them. Even then be moderate in your amounts, and have three or four that are favored by him so that you can alternate. Degus like variety. My degus ADORED Brazilnuts, sunflower seeds IN the shell, Pecans, Pepitas/pumpkin seeds, and large flake oats/or steel cut oats. When you go into the playpen, hide little bits of his favorite treats in the folds of your clothes and let him find them. Do this for a couple of weeks, and then start mixing laying and sitting, having the treats in the palm of your hand, up on your shoulder . . . and continue to let him roam on your body freely. This does WONDERS for helping a degu, or several degus, to feel completely at home with you. Then you can start with other things, such as some people teach tricks. Or just helping them to get used to being on your body when you are standing still, then walking, then moving about your home. We used to "wear" our degus all over the house and they would stay with us, or go to sleep inside our clothing. It's lovely! Just be aware . . . they start to "anoint" you as they get more bonded with you. You may want to have a pair of "degu clothes" that you don't mind getting wee on.

[savvy]

How are you getting on?