Advice on teeth please

[misscatafer]

Please can I have some advice/opinions about Boos teeth. They have always been very brittle and the top two snap easily, they are usually very jagged after she has had a good chew on something. The bottom two are growing further and further apart. She is eating and drinking and chewing without issue and doesn't appear in any pain. She eats milk thistle and seeds with ease. She isn't losing any weight and gained weight easily after the choas in November. She weighs 240g presently which is back to her norm. Her teeth have been like this since I adopted her in May. She is 5 years old. The hair loss under her mouth is from the injuries sustained from the choas. (think I covered all the basics!)

[ntg]

Which teeth is it that keep breaking?
Top, bottom or both? There is a potential issue of them misaligning and wearing down unevenly (which looks like it's happening slightly). If you look at the top right (her left) incisor you can see that it has a round shape rather than a straight edge which is matching up to the gap between her teeth. If that continues then it might force the bottom teeth apart further and you'll get a spike on the outer edge of the top left tooth that may start growing down towards the gum.

It's likely that it'll need some frequent trimming trips at the vets to keep it in check and some xrays/a CT scan to make sure that the structure of the teeth is normal at the roots.

I wonder if anyone has put a solid stitch around the tooth before to try and realign them - a bit like braces for degus...

[misscatafer]

Thanks for the advice it is the top two that keep chipping. They look a bit horrendous don't they... Do you think she is in pain with this? I read somewhere that gappy bottom teeth indicate inbreeding... Don't know how factual this is though. And you are right! It does look like the top two are growing to match up to the bottom two's misalignment.

[ntg]

I wonder sometimes if root abscesses can also cause it - a gap formed in the bottom incisors of one of my boys when they were young after his broke during a vet exam. Vet decided incisor extraction was the best solution and broke his jaw in the process which caused an infection to get into his jaw and basically dissolve the jaw. I never got any xrays done for him so can't really say if it was an abscess that formed in the broken root and then spread to the jaw when it broke but it's always been a sneaking suspicion of mine.

[moletteuk]

You have a slightly irregular version of a V shape issue that is something you see reported on the German forums and a few people have shown us pics on here, but I don't really know what the cause or solution is. The top, pointy V forces the other teeth apart gradually. The only solution I read when I investigated maybe 3yrs ago was regular trims at the vet to straighten off the meeting surfaces. My experience with Flossie's splitting tooth tells me that incisors grow at something approaching 1mm a day, so I can't really imagine that trimming lasts long before the V appears again.

I don't think she is likely to be in pain, unless there is an issue with the roots. It's just one of those frustrating things where a minor issue can be very difficult to treat and can become a bigger issue in time.

I think a first step would be a proper examination at the vets, get a good look at the roots, maybe xray, see what the vet thinks.

If the teeth snap easily then I would suspect there may be an underlying structural issue with the teeth so I would certainly recommend a UV lamp, lots of calcium and read up on bouncy's findings about vit d supplementing and think about that.

BTW I think Ntg and I have both decided that incisor extraction isn't really feasible since her experience above.

[ntg]

Yep, the jaw is far too delicate for a successful extraction in most, if not all, cases. After 4 years it's still an extremely sore point for me that the vet was basing her "success" with the procedure on dental work in rabbits.

[misscatafer]

Thank you, that is really reassuring and informative. You have affirmed my biggest concern that although not seemingly being an issue now, it may become one in the future. To be honest regarding the vets.. Some people may disagree with me but I don't think I will take her to the vets until she starts showing signs of discomfort or pain, weight loss or difficulties eating, as I wouldn't want to stress her or cause her fear unnecessarily. My nearest vet who will see degus is on average 40 minutes each way, so the process is quite distressing and lengthy for them. It is definitely something I need to be wary about with her though, and I will look into a uv bulb. I will have a look at the seed charts too to see what would be best for calcium.

[misscatafer]

Jan 8, 2018 16:46:39 GMT ntg said:

I wonder sometimes if root abscesses can also cause it - a gap formed in the bottom incisors of one of my boys when they were young after his broke during a vet exam. Vet decided incisor extraction was the best solution and broke his jaw in the process which caused an infection to get into his jaw and basically dissolve the jaw. I never got any xrays done for him so can't really say if it was an abscess that formed in the broken root and then spread to the jaw when it broke but it's always been a sneaking suspicion of mine.

I'm so sorry for your experience ntg it sounds horrific did he recover?

[ntg]

Unfortunately not, he had to be put down a month after the surgery since he effectively had no jaw left from the infection. We had no idea he had an infection until we got the phonecall when they were taking his stitch out either so it came as a complete shock to all of us since he seemed to be improving.

And don't worry about the vet, just be wary about the bottom teeth splitting further apart as the more misalignment that happens, the more intervention she'll probably need!

[misscatafer]

That is a very good point, I think I will email these pictures to the vet to see what the opinion is

[claire]

I agree regarding the vet. My little man has issues I'm not taking him in until I see negative signs from him. So far so good no need to stress him

[yasmin]

There is a fine line between taking a degu to a vet too soon for teeth issues and taking him in too late. Too soon is possibly a waste of time/money; too late can be fatal.
I wouldn't worry too much about the stress of the vet visit – I cover my degu carrier and then put it in a box. The darkness seems to keep them calmer.

At the first sign of weight loss, drooling, selective eating, bleeding, squinting, or pawing at the mouth, Boo should be taken to the vet to have her back molars checked for spurs. With her misaligned jaw, it is likely that she will suffer from spurs in the future – and it is also possible that there is a spur already that is causing the misalignment. Another problem that a misaligned jaw can lead to is a temporal mandibular disorder where the degu eventually has problems closing and/or opening her jaw due to a shortening of the ligaments on one side.

Check out out information page about dental issues if you haven't done so already.

deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21967/guide-degu-dental-health

[misscatafer]

So Sergio got back to me. He feels it is incisor malocclusion, where either one of both of the lower incisors are loose, leading to the increasing gap. He feels this is being caused by a problem with the cheek teeth and has recommended ct scans and xrays so treatment can be figured out. He also agreed that it is not causing that much of a problem now, but would more than likely lead to problems in the future. So you were all spot on! Looks like I need to get this sorted out for her.

[Deleted]

Good luck!!

[misscatafer]

Just rang for a quote... We will be looking at £700 and that is just for investigations, does not include any actual treatment! I almost fainted... Jeez! unfortunately we are in no position to afford this, we are in the process of buying our first home so money is tight anyway right now. After we get into our house and get sorted we will see if we can somehow go about getting her looked at without that ridiculous cost, but right now it is not an option. We put money aside each month as an alternative to insurance.... But even doing that does not cover this!

[ntg]

£700 definitely seems high! If a CT is done then xrays shouldn't be at all necessary, xrays should be sufficient (and a cheaper option) but there is always a risk that they won't get a good enough image from an xray to give a clear diagnosis (hence why I always go for CT).

For reference, I got quoted £180-200 for xrays and £250-300 for CT inc general anaesthetic so you might want to get a break down of costs!

I can fully sympathise with big bills though as I'm currently struggling to figure out how much is too much with vet bills since I was quoted £600-700 for a CT scan and biopsy just before Christmas for Sherlock and that's after he's already had dental work, one CT scan and investigative anaesthetic since I got him at the end of February. I'd hate to add up what I've spent on him so far

[misscatafer]

They said the CT scan is £550, never mentioned if this included anesthetic or not so unclear about that. Then xrays are £90 each and will probably need at least two. Very very expensive.

[ntg]

Did they say why the xrays are necessary with the CT? I really don't understand what they could possibly show that a CT wouldn't since a CT is basically xrays taken at every possible angle and then put together into a 3D image by computer software.

[bouncy]

Bit late to the party........

It LOOKS like the longer of the top two teeth is pushing the bottom two further apart every time she bites. Do the bottom incisors feel wobbly (if you dare to put your fingers so close)?

I can't believe how much you've been quoted for xrays and scans! It may be worth the cost of the xrays, as they can reveal a lot.

[ntg]

To be honest, for the price difference I'd just go for the xrays and see if they show anything.

The reason I've gone for CTs is that there's £100-150 difference in the quote for my vets and I knew there was a risk that I'd have to get one done anyway if the xrays were inconclusive but if it had been 5x the price then I would have just said to do the xray!

Could the cost be so high because they're having to refer for a CT? Which vet is it that you use?