Drinking much more than normal

[looneygirl]

Hi

For the past week my degus have been drinking much more than normal, between two or three times more than they normally drink. They normally have about 25 - 40ml  in total between them but now they are up to 50 - 70 ml in total between the two of them.

I am worried that it could be a sign of diabetes. How much would they have to drink a day for this to be likley? Had degus for 2 years, never had them before that so worried about them. No health problems before today.

The only think different I can think of is the new hay, normally get them timothy hay but there was none in the store when I went so got them normal hay, which the label said was fine for degus. Just read the nutrition label a few minutes ago and it has 8% sugar in, which I did not relize as it said it was fine for degus. Could this be causing them to drink more? I have taken the hay put and will get timothy hay first thing in the morning.

Should they be ok? I an worried I may have given them diabetes due to the hay. They have only had it a week but they do eat a lot of it. What should I do?

Their behaviour is normal and no eye problems so far.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[savvy]

Monitor how much they are drinking now the hays been swapped back to timothy.

Also has the temperature been hotter than normal where they are kept. If they are feeling hot, this could also increase their water intake.

If in doubt, get some dip sticks from the vet and test their urine. This may be able to be done without the goos needing to be with you, but you will need to check with your vet.

Which brand of hay was it with the sugar? It would help to know so others know about it.

[looneygirl]

No the temperature has been about the same here, wet and cold it was hotter a few weeks ago and they drank less than this.

the cage is in a shady spot of the flat so they never get particularly hot anyway.

it is just called medium hay from pets at home, it has degu ticked on the back saying it is fine fir them to eat, and it may be but that is the only thing I can think has changed this last week.

How much would they have to drink before it inducates diabetes? Is there a guideline for this as I cannot find anything online? Could this just be a phase?

Will pick up the indicator sticks tomorrow, really hoping they will be negative and the change if hay will put everything back to normal.

[savvy]

Only a vet would be able to confirm diabetes for sure, but the sticks will help you monitor any changes.

I'd have a chat with your vet about drinking levels.

[fb1928]

Hello looneygirl,

I have a diabetic Degu, who currently lives alone and he drinks about 80ml of water a day sometime more, so although your goo's are drinking more then they normally do, its no where near the amount of a diabetic degu, but this could be a sign of boarder line diabetes. I have noticed that sometimes my other Degus (who are not diabetic) sometimes have stages of drinking more water, this can be caused by many factors but usually weather.

I would advise purchasing some Keto-Diastix these are use to monitor sugar level in the urine from home, these can be brought from eBay, Amazon, Health stores etc or you can get them from your vet. I would advise going to see the vet just incase, as they can do a blood test, as this is the only way to confirm defiantly if a degu is diabetic.

Changing to the new hay for only a week would not cause diabetes, diabetes is caused by long term poor sugary diet.

Have you noticed any chances in there behaviour?
Do they become very active and then lethargic?
Are they sleeping more?
Are they urinating more then normal?
Does the urine have a strong smell to it?

Please keep an eye on their eyes, as cataracts can form very quickly if they are diabetic... I cannot stress this enough as our Degu has a cataracts and is completely blind in one eye and has another one forming in the other eye too (He was already blind in eye, had another cataracts and diabetes when we adopted him due to his previous owner feeding him an poor sugary diet).

Please do feel free to ask me any further questions and I will try my best to answer them.

[looneygirl]

Thank you fb1928 

80ml on his own is double what mine are drinkning, makes me feel a little better. My husband wants to monitor them for a few days now the hay has changed back to see if they keep over drinking before we take them to the vets. Hopefully by Wednesday drinking will be back to normal. Will pick up some diabetic sticks from the vets opposite my work today and test them anyway. What levels are a diabetic degu? 

I don't think they have a sugary diet, they get a bit of millet, 3 sunflower seeds, some chia seeds and what I call a green day (a bit of drued carrot and herbs and safe flowers, most ends up on the floor) , once a week on different days. Other than that degu pellets and hay daily and a nut once a month. Is this a bad diet? Should I stop giving them some of it? I have tried vegtables but other than dried carrot it all gets ignored. 

Behaviour seems the same, they like fusses only when they want them, otherwise get growled at.

They have always had wheel time then run around cage like a looneys then sleep for a bit. Goes in about  3 hours cycle then starts again. Dont really eat much, both on the lower end of weight scale for degus. 

Not sleeping more than they normally do.

Cage does not smell so I assume urine does not smell, cannot always tell where they have been to the bathroom but do not think they are urinating more than normal.

Poo does not smell or look different though. 

We check eyes, ears and teeth every week, been doing it every day for last couple of days.

They have been chewing sticks (apple only as that is easiest to get hold of) more than normal, could that cause increased drinkning?

Really hoping that I have not done something wrong. 

[deguconvert]

Degus also have a genetic predisposition to diabetes, so a bad diet is not necessary for the appearance of diabetes. Over the years we have definitely had members that were very careful with their degu diets, and yet diabetes occurred. It can come right out of the blue. It doesn't hurt to get some of those dipping sticks and check. Also, it does't hurt to begin to increase the variety of forage type foods that you give your degus, so a good read through our Diet and Nutrition would be helpful to you. Look especially at all the sticky threads that have a red pin through their folders.

[moletteuk]

I don't think a weeks incorrect feeding could cause diabetes, althouhg I suppose it could show up a genetic pre-disposition.

Are you sure you read the nutrition info on the hay right? Nutrition breakdowns rarely even mention sugar because they normally lump sugars in with carbohydrates because sugars are just a form of carbohydrate. Pure hay would not have any 'sugar' in it, I can imagine only ones with added veg might have some sugar content. All types of hay have similar nutrition, here is a chart with some information www.guinealynx.info/hay_chart.html

I think the drinking amounts are still normal, probably at the high end and you are right to have a good think about any changes that could have caused it. Did they eat a lot of the hay? Can you think of anything else? Have they been more or less active than usual?

You might like to add in more forage to their diet, things like herbs, tree leaves, meadow plants, flowers etc are all very beneficial. You could also add in some high calcium oil seeds (like the mix from Ratrations), they would benefit from a bigger range of seeds. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guide

[looneygirl]

They always eat a good bit of hay, they will sit in it for ages when it is fresh eating it, its the only time they are quiet. I cannot think of any other changes recently, food, weather, temperature, etc all been the same as normal. Been active the same levels as they have always been and no weight gaIn.

I have tried adding forage to the diet, they may eat dandilion leaves and a bit of herbs very occasionally but whatever else we try just ends of being ignored. We try something every week but still no takers, either ignored or pushed out the cage when looking for something else. The only seeds they ever liked were sunflower and chia seeds, a nut once a month. Really fussy eaters. Will not take fresh veg but like dried carrot, have tried drying other vegtables but they are just not interested. Will go through the threads and see if there is anything we have not tried that we can give them.

[fb1928]

I agree just keep an close eye on them to see if you notice any changes at all. There diet doesn't sound sugary so there is no cause for diabetic concern with this but obviously as others have stated this doesn't rule out diabetes completely. But they don't seem be showing any other signs, so hopefully they are not.

I would defiantly recommend trying the different forage's again as our Chuckie was a very fussy eater but we persevered and he now eats all the forage, the same was with the dried veg, he use to turn his nose up at it or throw it to one side but we kept trying it and he now likes it. Degu can just be very stubborn and want the less healthier stuff more - be careful with the amount of carrot you give them as this is high in sugar.

I would have a look at the diet pages there is lots of very useful information on there.

[Deleted]

Dried carrot I'd really limit due to the sugar content.

What forage have you tried?

I feed 10 species per day for a week and mix it up every week so they have somethings different the next.

Mine eat next to no hay, I only feed 5g of pellets max a day because they eat primarily forage. They have the daily seed mix too.

The seeds we are talking about are for daily usage, not once a week/fortnightly treat like a sunflower seed.

[fb1928]

Degus do love sunflower seeds but these should be treated as a treat too - so they are high in fat and have a high acidic content.

As well as sugar content looking out for the fat content is also very important in a Degu's diet.

You would be surprised that fat, acid and sugar content on some seeds and also on certain shop brought forages.

[moletteuk]

Are you trying dried forage? That is usually more popular than fresh. Sometimes you will find they do their own safety procedure and just take a nibble the first day and then wait until they know it doesn't disagree with them, and then carry on. Sometimes it's difficult to notice they are eating it because they just nibble bits now and then and there can be quite a bit of wastage.

If they are fussy with seeds, I would try coriander, fennel and sesame first as ones with beneficial calcium content that are usually reasonably well liked. The Diastix or Keto-diastix test strips aren't too expensive if you would like to do proper testing.

Regarding the suspicion of diabetes, just keep monitoring them, other things you might notice would be weight loss, over-excitement and strong hunger followed by lethargy, possibly some aggression, urine might smell odd.