Degu struggling to eat

[clappyclaps]

Hi all,

 I'm new to the boards and I'm after some advice please on my poorly degu. 

I got home from work last night and spotted a small bit of dried blood in my degus cage. I let them out for an inspection and couldn't find a sign of where the blood had come from. I fed them a few treats and that's when my boy Gus' mouth started bleeding. It wasn't just an odd drop of blood, and he was obviously uncomfortable and after his mouth started bleeding, he kept lying down and seemed a bit lethargic. 

I took him to the vet last night and the vet had a look in his mouth and couldn't see anything wrong his teeth from this. His suggestion was that Gus had been trying to chew or eat something a little too vigorously and caused trauma to his mouth/teeth. He gave me metacam and baytril antibiotics to give to him and said this should help his mouth heal. He advised to keep an eye on Gus to make sure he's healing and to make sure he's eating. He said if he doesn't eat, to bring him back so they can inspect his mouth further.

Today Gus seems to be slightly livelier although he does keep hiding out in his nest box. Unfortunately as there's 2 of them in the cage, I can't figure out which of them is eating the food, so I decided to give them a few treats again.

Gus tried eating the treats and obviously wanted to eat them, but he still seemed to be having issues chewing. Although fortunately there was no blood this time. Afterwards he was making chewing motions with his mouth, despite not having anything in this mouth.

My question is, can anyone advise on how long I should leave him for before I take him back to the vets if he still isn't eating? Or has anyone experienced anything similar?

Im not sure if it's the problem the vet has said or a further teeth issue, and I don't want to rush Gus back today if his mouth is just healing. But I obviously don't want to leave him for too long if he continues to struggle to eat. 

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Sarah

[randomname]

Hi Sarah,
Welcome to the forum, glad you're here

Dental issues are super common, we see things like this all the time. I'm sure someone will be along soon to reply to your questions who has had something very similar happen. I haven't had that happen, so I can't really add anything helpful.

I do want to ask a little more about your vet though - are they a degu knowledgeable vet? We find a lot of vets haven't really seen them before. Also, when they looked at Gus' teeth, did they use an instrument to look right at the back ones? Did they discover where the blood came from? (was it the back or front, gums or mouth?)

You could start by making a mash of his usual food mixed with a bit of hot water (obviously let it cool down) to see if it's easier for him to eat. It's great that he's got an appetite, that's an excellent sign.

Personally I think degus are too tiny to mess about if they're not eating. They need to eat constantly throughout the day to keep their guts moving, like all herbivores. If their guts stop moving, it's a critical situation. I think I'd book Gus in for tomorrow morning if he's still struggling. You may also need to think about xrays as a lot of dental problems are impossible to spot by just looking. He'll need to be ok for anaesthetic so you don't want him weak from not eating, sooner the better if you're going to get xrays I think.

Mods/helpers - Does anyone one else think the chewing motion with no food in his mouth sounds like something might be wrong with his molars right at the back? Why is that ringing bells for me?

[Deleted]

I'm thinking molar problems.

Did the vet sedate him to look at his teeth and are they very experienced? If not they may have missed a few things.

My degu Kev was doing the teeth grinding despite having nothing in his mouth. Had an over grown tooth and a loose tooth despite only being 12 months old.

You need to sedate them to see properly unfortunately in most cases, especially with things like loose teeth etc. Or molars growing towards the cheeks etc etc.

[Deleted]

What are you feeding him?

[clappyclaps]

Thank you both for your replies.

To answer your questions, yes the vet is degu knowledgeable - there were a limited number of vets in my area that would look at them. And yes, they used an instrument to look at the back. He said the blood was coming from the right hand side of this mouth.

Food wise, I give him the Pets at Home nuggets which I've never has any issues with. And treats wise they have oats as they've always been fussy about everything else.

The vet didn't sedate him although he did say that would be the next option if Gus didn't start eating. I think if he doesn't improve tonight then I'll try and get him in tomorrow morning?

[randomname]

Phew! a good degu vet is fantastic, glad you've got one. How long has Gus had antibiotics now? just overnight/today? If so, I'd definitely expect to see some improvement tonight/in the morning if they are helping. If you see a huge improvement over night, you know it's the antibiotics. The painkillers will be masking some symptoms though, so he may seem better but if it comes back when you stop the painkillers then it could be something else.
If it were me, I'd continue meds overnight. If he's not dramatically improved by the morning, I'd get him in as early as possible. I'd ask them to do a proper dental & also xrays while he's out. If they don't find anything & don't xray, you'll have to bring him back in a few day to sedate/xray & he'll be even weaker then.. not worth it. It may cost a bit but it is much much less risky for Gus. Even if the find a problem & treat it, there may also be issues in the roots (a very common problem) so you'd want to find it or rule it out as soon as you can. might as well get it all done in one go.
I hope he's feeling better soon, glad he's got you caring for him, you're clearly a loving & caring goo slave.

[randomname]

I should add that Pets @ home's nuggets aren't the best nutritionally. There are other better quality nuggets out there. Here's a link to our nutrition area deguworld.proboards.com/board/24/diet-nutrition that can give you lots of information on the best pellets/nuggets (most of us feed a mix of the top 2 or 3) & the importance of forage & seeds. There's lots of interesting information to read

[deguconvert]

Hi Sarah, and welcome to the forum!! I have nothing more to add to what has been said by the other ladies, but wanted to post so that you would know I'd read your thread. 100% agree with Randomname's last post and urge you to do this. Degu mouths are not east to see into, and a thorough exam while under anesthesia is the best way to learn why he is bleeding and what is going on.

[clappyclaps]

Thanks for the welcome seguconvert and thank you for the advice randomname.

Gus has only been on antibiotics since last night, so he's only had 2 doses so far. There has already been an improvement in his behaviour since this morning. He definitely seems much brighter.

I'll be honest, I got a little worried before (as I'm sure most pet owners do!) and decided to take him back to the vets. I saw a different vet to last time, but she seemed as knowledgeable as the one I saw yesterday. She had another look at him and again couldn't see any obvious issues in his mouth. She was hesitant to sedate him right then due to the risks involved and as it could just be him recovering from the cut in his mouth (which is at the front at the right). Instead she's given me some syringeable food supplement to feed him with over the next day or so while he recovers, and she's said that if he still isn't eating on his own by then, they'll get him in and sedate him and look at his back teeth.

Typically he stopped doing the chewing thing with his mouth whilst he was at the vets! So I'll see how is he tomorrow evening and take it from there.

Oh and thanks for the advice on food. I do know pets at home isn't great, however I've never been sure which other food to go for! I'll give the boards a read and definitely look at switching when Gus is feeling better

[randomname]

I actually love you for taking him back today!! You'd be surprised how many people don't - we've seen some really quite nasty injuries & people reluctant to get them seen. Not many, but it is really annoying. I'm so glad you care enough - you've done exactly what most of us would have done. Better to be over cautious than not, eh?

Sounds like the antibiotics are doing something, so that's good. I can see why both vets are reluctant if things are improving. All sounds like good advice.

Sometimes it's just nice to know that you're doing everything you can - & it certainly sounds like you are. Makes me happy to know Gus is getting great care from you & the vets.

[clappyclaps]

Absolutely, and thank you

I try not to be rash when taking pets to the vet, as unfortunately I've been burnt many times before with my cat - lost count of the amount of times she's been to the vets and they either couldn't find anything wrong or whatever it was would've sorted itself on its own. It's funny how a trip in a cat box can cure most ailments! I can understand people's reluctance to go to the vets, especially as they're pricey, but it's your pets health - it's priceless!

This is my first degu trip to the vets though. Surprisingly Gus has been easier to sort out than my cat!

[bouncy]

If you're worried about his lack of eating in the meantime, try something soft like baby food or even critical care recovery food (vet will have some). Whilst the healing is starting, it may still feel too sore for him to chew on it. Welcome! Don't think you can only come on here when your goo is poorly - have a look through the different sections!

[moletteuk]

How was his eating before the incident? Have you been tracking his weight? What weight is he now?

Dental issues are very common, but I'm wondering if the sudden large amount of blood could have come from a fall or something causing an acute injury? If it is a long term dental thing that has come to a head you would likely see a gradual fall in weight and increasing fussiness with food.

[clappyclaps]

Thanks bouncy & molette.

I think the food the vet has given me is critical care. Unfortunately I'm struggling to give him it as it obviously isn't as tasty as the meds! But I will persevere.

As far as I can recall, a couple of days ago his eating was fine. He was weighed at the vets and he was just over 210g - I haven't weighed him myself recently but I don't think that's too far from what his weight was the last time I did weigh him.

He's looking much better tonight, even running for a while on the wheel so hopefully he might be getting better.

[moletteuk]

Good to hear he is perking up Mine will take Critical Care voluntarily if I place dollops on pieces of dried vegetables, or you might be more succesful if you mix in some chopped nuts to make it smell good.

[goolover]

The blood whilst he was eating makes me more inclined to think it was an injury too, we hear of molar problems etc quite alot but never with symptoms of blood dripping from the mouth. Fingers crossed this is just an injury and the antibiotics will help to heal and prevent infection. Good job on the vet trips and a very warm welcome to the forum calppyclaps. You have 2 gorgeous boys there and as Random said, they are very lucky and in capable hands.

[bouncy]

So, is Gus the nosey one at the front, or the grumpy git at the back?

[deguconvert]

The only thing that has made me wonder about spurs on the molars is if the tongue or cheek have been pierced, which could be a recent development?

[yasmin]

Welcome to the forum, clappyclaps.

How old is Gus?
If your vet saw a sore in his mouth and if they did not see any spurs that might have caused it, then it likely is an injury. It may take 4+ days for the antibiotics to kick in but the Metacam should kick in quickly. The Metacam should make it less painful for him to eat.
(If you do not see great improvement in 4-5 days, I would take him back again for a third time. The grinding is often a sign of a teeth issue – there may be a spur growing under his tongue. Not likely - but possible.)

The only way I have been able to get my goos to eat Critical Care is if I mix it with baby food – organic, no added sugar, flavors like squash or sweet potato or pea or carrot. I put it on a spoon or a plate and offer it to them. They usually like it especially if they are hungry because they can't eat hard food.

Good luck with Gus. Very good sign that he's running his wheel. Please keep us updated.

[clappyclaps]

Thank you all

Gus is the grumpy git at the back Bouncy. Of the 2, he's the least inquisitive and not as brave as his brother Jaq. He's proving to be a very grumpy Gus this morning as he's not letting me anywhere near him to give his antibiotics or critical care.

Thanks for the advice on alternative feeding methods though, especially the baby food - thanks Yasmin. As his mouth is likely still sore this sounds like a good option, I'll nip out and get some and try to get him to take it!

Oh and deguconvert, the vet couldn't see any wounds etc in his tongue or cheek?