Teeth falling in

[haaj]

I hoped I'd never have to post in this subforum again after Earwig's death just half a year ago. But we just discovered our 2-year old Friedrich has had something terrible happening to his lower jaw. He's always had this very soft bite when we were giving him treats, but he was also the most nervy and we thought he was just afraid of us. Now we've arranged for a visit to a vet but it won't be until Friday and while we're trying to find someone to see him sooner, maybe there is something we could do, like disinfection, or maybe he should be separated from his brother?

It's barely possible to make a photograph but essentially his lower front teeth are very white and have fallen very far behind the upper front teeth, so you can barely see them - when he's opening his mouth:

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Any help would be appreciated.

[deguconvert]

Hello Haaj! It is so lovely to see you again!! Do you mean that his lower teeth are sloping back into his mouth, toward the throat? If so, can you feel any lumps in the chin that could possibly be the roots of those incisors? Can you feel any abnormalities in the lower jaw? Is the visible length of the lower teeth short and close to the gums, or are they very long?

It is certainly strange to see the upper incisors so nice and orange while the bottom ones are distinctly white.

I have no ideas at the moment for treatment or help. Moletteuk found a book on dental issues of rodents, and it is mentioned here on the forum somewhere. I've spent some time trying to find it, but can't. I'll ask Moletteuk about it.

[Deleted]

I have no clue how to help, but hello! Nice to meet you.
It sure is weird looking to see healthy teeth next to non-healthy orange teeth like that.
To me the lower jaw, his chin looks very swollen, so maybe swelling is hiding the full length of the teeth?

[deguconvert]

I wondered if it looked swollen as well. Perhaps there is infection in the roots?

[moletteuk]

I'm sorry you are back in these circumstances

It looks a bit weird to me, I think the lip looks swollen too, I think the teeth might be in the right place because they still meet the top set quite well, and it could be an illusion from the lip. The lower teeth are only usually seen at their full length quite unusually when the lower lip is drawn back, you don't often see them more than the tip. I'm wondering if there could be an abscess in there, maybe something like that could affect blood supply to the lower teeth and that could cause them to de-mineralise. A thorough vet exam should shed some light, if the vet isn't sure what they are seeing he might need sedation and xrays.

I can PM you a link to a download of an excellent rodent dental book, but it would be quite difficult to read while you are worried and the pics can be distressing, so I'm going to wait to see if you want it before I PM it. You potentially have something unusual going on that I don't remember seeing in the book.

[haaj]

Thank you all for your support! We really needed it and while I couldn't answer while in the car, just reading your posts was very comforting. We'd found a vet relatively close - a one hour drive - and we've just come back. We were mortified to go because our two previous vet trips ended in the degu's death and I had very little hope for poor Friedrich. But he's alive! And the prognosis is reasonably good!

The vet examined his teeth and lower lip very carefully. There was a visible wound in the lip, and scarring along the lower teeth. The outer layer of the enamel seemed like it was peeled away somehow. Then she noticed some of his whiskers looking odd, some where curling a bit in very thin strands, and a few seemed like they were burnt. And we remembered we've had one of our electrical cables short-circuit yesterday. There were no degus present and they weren't chewing on cables anyway; but apparently Friedrich must have found a particular bit of cable very objectionable and bit into it really hard, which resulted in scarring. Whatever the electricity did it presumably affected the enamel's outer layer somehow, which is why the teeth were white. We feel very guilty - but to our defense the little brats have never shown any interest in the d**n cable! Argh. I feel like banging my head against the wall for being so stupid.

The vet couldn't see/feel anything wrong at all with the roots or the jaw itself - so moletteuk was right, it was an illusion caused by the swollen lower lip. Since Friedrich was eating normally all day (and during the entire trip to the vet) and acted perfectly normally, she said she doubts an x-ray is necessary and that there is probably no abscess or serious infection. We're to give him antibiotics for 10 days orally, and also treat his lip twice a day with an antibiotic cream. She says it will take anywhere between 14 and 45 days for the tissue to heal, since it varies between degus.

[moletteuk]

Wow! What a relief! Get well soon, Friedrich!

A playpen might be a good idea, I wouldn't trust any degu with electric cables, we have a thread on the go at the moment about making one deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21316/new-play-pen

[haaj]

Trouble is, we had everything covered (metaphorically *and* literally!) before, but we've just moved to a different apartment a month ago, so some things still have to be adjusted... I'll look into that playpen thread!

[bouncy]

I'm so glad it's something straight forward with Friedrich! I don't think you need us to tell you it could have been a lot worse! The cut is probably caused by a loose bit of wire, which could also have stripped the enamel. Was there any sign of burns?

I know Earwig is irreplaceable in your hearts, but it sounds like Friedrich is nudging his way in

[deguconvert]

OUCH! An electric burn . . . bet he won't bite one of those again. I'm so relieved he is OK, and that he didn't do even greater damage. A very good and observant vet to see the signs of the burn in his whiskers. Get well soon little Friedrich!!

[haaj]

Thank you bouncy! I'm not sure about the terminology (and also the English equivalents), but the vet didn't just say "wound" or "scar" but like ahh an electricity trauma? Sounds silly in English and I'm not sure I got the word right anyway.

Friedrich is already looking better - just slightly, but the lip now looks like a healthy one with a cut, not like a huge mess as it was before.

[bouncy]

Sounds like typical electrical burn trauma. He's such a sweetie

[haaj]

Friedrich is definitely better - the scar is barely visible (if at all). We're still giving him antibiotics because the vet told us 10 days, but Friedrich has had it up to his little ears with this poking and forced drinking of this strange-tasting water - has been giving us more and more trouble lately. We still have to master the burrito restraint... On the plus side, at least there seems to be no trust lost - he still comes to us for treats and isn't afraid at all. Seems like he's mildly annoyed only.

[haaj]

Oh and I think his teeth are getting orange again - at the bottom, at least, it seems like that. Fingers crossed.

[haaj]

Here are the two of them enjoying a sun bath, to add a bit more good vibes to the thread (Friedrich is on the left):

[deguconvert]

I LOVE IT! Two hairy little sausages (with tails and ears) soaking up the sun!! Don't they look comfy and relaxed.

[bouncy]

I do love the butt warming!

[moletteuk]

Mine have been doing a lot of that lately

I wouldn't go out of your way to do the full 10 days of antibiotics if it is healing well and there is no sign of infection, might do more harm than good. Obviously, I'm not a vet, but 10 days is a long course just as a precaution.

[haaj]

Yeah, we're also a bit worried about the length of the course. Today is the 7th day and everything seems to be looking just perfect - teeth are definitely growing back that orange enamel, I can't see any swelling or scarring. A bit scary to stop now - what if there's some lingering infection? - but maybe it'd be for the best... still unsure.

[moletteuk]

I'm not a vet so I can't tell you what to do, but I wouldn't have any hesitation in stopping at seven days, that is the length of a normal course, so you aren't doing the harm that half a course of antibiotics can do. I don't think there have been any symptoms or signs of infection at any point, the antibiotics up to this point should have stopped anything developing.