Rectal Prolapse in Degu

[elfkindler]

Hey, I'm new to posting here but I've been a lurker for quite some time. My husband and I have three delightful female degus. One of them, Lucy, has recently had troubles with a rectal prolapse. We hurried her into the vet on Saturday. They were able to put it back in and had to put sutures around to hold it. We were very worried about losing her from the sedation (we lost a degu due to this before),but she pulled through. We were supposed to bring her back Monday evening to get the sutures removed, but just before we did we discovered that the sutures were gone! She must have pulled them out herself.
Today, unfortunately, the prolapse has recurred. We brought her back in and the vet is redoing the procedure right now. Hopefully she will make it! But we can't keep bringing her back in; it isn't really any way for her to live. And, frankly, we will go bankrupt if we have to do this too many times. Any advice on how to prevent this from recurring?
She is on an antibiotic the vet prescribed and they will also send us home with pain meds. She is 7 years old and we live in Canada. She eats Martin's brand rabbit pellets (has for years) and Timothy hay. She also gets mixed greens.

[deguconvert]

Oh my goodness! That sounds absolutely awful! I have no idea how to help you with this, I'm really sorry to say. Penile prolapse is something we have encountered a fair amount, but a rectal prolapse is new to me. I've got to get off right away so can't linger. A couple of questions.

What kind of substrate are you using? Anything rough and pokey? Might want to put in soft toweling if it is rough and pokey so as to protect the area and not cause any kind of extra agitation to it.
What size of cage is she in? Limiting her movement so it has time to heal would be a good thing, so no wheel, no long drops or such. Do you have a travel cage or anything that you could use for her for a few days?

[moletteuk]

I've found one other case for you, and in that thread a reference to a second. But it seems like there might have been a stress and diet incident causing the first case and it sort of went away by itself. It does contain a warning for the anal sutures being too tight, so that is definitely something for you to watch out for. Perhaps you could ask your vet about possible ointments to use if the sutures fail again, something that could help keep the exposed tissue viable until it hopefully goes in by itself.
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/19762/degu-eating-after-medical-treatments

Has there been any sudden stress or change in her eating?

I guess it would help if you could soften the poo, but I'm not sure how best to do that. Probably more forage would help, but you don't want to bulk up the poo too much. Maybe more liquid. Can you try offering fresh grass,fresh dandelions, fresh bought salad leaves or carrot tops, something like that? I think fresh forage is most likely to produce optimum poop.

I've had a look at the Martin's rabbit pellets, they don't look too bad apart from the protein content is a bit high. There is a supplement they sometimes put in rabbit food that is unsafe for other species, but I can't remember what it is right now, maybe you can have a look at the bag. You could look around and see if you can find a degu specific product, Versele Lage Pro or Crispy would be the better options, there is also a Sunseed product, but I don't know if it would particularly help you right now.

[elfkindler]

Yeah, it's been quite stressful. We are still worried we might lose her.

We use a generic version of CareFresh in our big cage for all three girls. Right now Lucy is in a small travel cage, both to limit her movement and also because we are concerned that one of the other degus might pull her sutures out during grooming. Emma, who is the dominant of the three, has already pretty much balded Lucy's tail from pulling all the hairs out! So I really don't trust her with Lucy's stitches. The travel cage is lined with a soft fleece right now. It's gentle and clean for her and also makes it obvious to us if she is passing stool.

Lucy's diet hasn't changed in years. We settled on the Martin's pellets on the advice of our vet years ago. Degu specific products are really hard to find in Canada, in my experience. Maybe you have some suggestions, deguconvert? All the degu-specific foods I found had objectionable ingredients, like molasses. But it's been a few years, it might be worth another look. We have been offering her extra greens in the hope it will soften her stool a bit.
I am really, really hoping the stitches hold this time and it stays in. We can't afford to keep taking her in. It's over $500 every time. And I don't think it's fair to her to keep stressing her out with too many repeated medical procedures. She's old as it is.

[deguconvert]

One of our other moderators that lives near your area, Yasmin, would probably be better suited to answer that than myself. She has a lot of experience with specialty feeding and could tell you what she feeds daily.

[elfkindler]

Lucy isn't doing well. She hasn't pooped since the new sutures were put in last night. I was able to gently squeeze some poo out, and it was very soft and smelly. It came out like toothpaste. She isn't flat, but she is no longer bright and active. She's hunched up and miserable. Could the Meloxicam be causing soft poo?

[elfkindler]

Since her poo is soft and smelly and her stool test came back faintly positive for giardia, I am thinking that might be the cause of all our woes. She has had her second dose of antiparasitic so... Fingers crossed. My poor little girl.

[goolover]

Could this be a womb prolaspe? So sorry to hear of your little girls troubles elfkindler , very stressful and scary for you and sounds like she is suffering at the moment. The meloxicam does have side effects and unfortunately can cause problems with their poo. Soft or poo's like toothpaste (diarrhea) can be a sign of medication overdose and also that her gut isn't coping with the medication but if she has giardia this of course could also explain the poo. It so hard to say. What is the metacam dosage? Are you able to feed her recovery food while she is so poorly and help tempt her to drink water. Wishing you and your girl a speedy recovery.

[elfkindler]

It's definitely a rectal prolapse. She's having trouble passing her diarrhea. I gently squeezed her anus this morning and got a bunch of it out for her. After that she was able to pass a bit of it on her own.
I noticed something new today, too. Milky white discharge in one of her eyes. Does anyone have experience with this?
Poor girl. She's still fluffed up and miserable.
Her metacam dosage is 0.14ml, I think.

[moletteuk]

How is she doing now?

Is she managing to poop for herself? It's really important that the guts keep moving. I don't have experience of giardia, but I'm sure that could account for her problems.

Low to medium doses of meloxicam would not normally affect digestion. I would think the antiparasitic might affect digestion.

Some probiotic might be helpful, I'm not sure what is available in Canada, but the UK product is Vetark Pro-C. Recovery foods also include some probiotic, but they tend to be nutrient dense, so might not be too helpful to the poo situation, they tend to soften the poo slightly but make it a bit denser in my experience.

I have seen very mild eye discharge in poorly degus and it can just be an indication they are unwell, particularly if you are syringe feeding. It can also indicate dental issues.

[deguconvert]

Places to look for fresh/dried foods for you. Also a list of some safe things copied from another thread.
Lady's mantle
burdock root,
hibiscus flowers (well liked but quite sweet)
horsetail (good for teeth)
chamomile
calendula
fennel
red clover
rosebuds
caraway
yarrow
dandelion root

The Atlantic Spice Company www.atlanticspice.com/

Also, Monterey Bay Spice Company www.herbco.com/c-2-bulk-herbs-spices.aspx

[yasmin]

Hello elfkinder. Sorry to hear of Lucy's condition. I hope she pulls through.

I live in Manotick. I have no experience with a rectal prolapse but I can advise on feeding.
I think it is very odd that your vet would advise feeding rabbit pellets. There are many stores in Ottawa that sell degu-specific food. I also order from Amazon.ca and from Nature's degu pantry. And I feed organic greens from Herb&Spice.

[elfkindler]

Thanks for the links and the list, Deguconvert. I will definitely look into that.

We've had all our degus on the Martin's pellets for 6 or 7 years. I was looking for a degu specific product at the time, but all the ones I found did not have a good ingredient list. The vet advised the Martin's brand and we started the girls on it. They all did fine on it so we never switched. Maybe there is something better around here now? Can I ask what specific brands you feed, yasmin?

Lucy has been able to pass some stool by herself, but not consistently. And it's still diarrhea. I was encouraged by the fact that she passed quite a bit last night (I found a lot in her cage this morning). I changed the fleece in her cage (it was nasty with all the diarrhea) early this afternoon. That was around 1PM and it's 6:40 now. There is no poo in her cage. So it looks like I'll have to help her again. I don't like to be manipulating her anus too much, since it has prolapsed twice and she still has stitches, but I don't know what else to do. The poo has to come out!
We started her on Critical Care yesterday and I gave her more today. She's taking it pretty well. I think it took her a little while to understand that it was food, but she's reasonably willing to take it from the syringe now. She also ate a few pellets and a seed. She's still quite lethargic but not as flat as yesterday.

[yasmin]

The fact that they have been given the Martin's and have reached the ages of 6-7 years is awesome. (Have they ever had teeth issues - just wondering because mine have been on degu foood and have molar spur and root issues)

The brand that I use now is Supreme Science but they don't distribute to Canada anymore so I have to order it via amazon.ca from Langton, a U.K. Company. You can get Sunseed brand from Critter Jungle on Carling. I also give my guys a bit of the Versele-Laga Degu Nature only because it's pellets and other bits vary in size and shape which provides options for my dentally challenged goos. It is not recommended though because the Calcium:Phosphorus ratio is not ideal (you want 2:1).
I also provide dried plant mixture and a seed mixture especially formulated for degu from a BC supplier, Nature's Degu Pantry. This can be ordered online. The ideal is for degu to eat that.

I am happy that Lucy is eating the Critical Care because that will provide the fibre she needs for normal gut motility. I make a paste of it and feed it either by the spoonful or on a little plate. Most of my degus love it especially if I mix it with some ground almond. Unfortunately there is a shortage of the apple-banana flavour in Ottawa and perhaps elsewhere too. So it is even better that she is starting to eat regular food too.

[elfkindler]

We actually got the apple-banana flavour for her. I didn't realize there was a shortage. Mixing it with almond meal is a great idea. We might try that tomorrow.

Lucy is 7 and Emma and Elizabeth are 6. They have never had any teeth issues. They eat with no problems and their teeth have that perfect deep orange colour they should have. Lucy has always been really healthy until this prolapse suddenly happened.

[elfkindler]

This is the food they get:
www.martinmills.com/little-friends-timothy-adult-rabbit-food.php

[moletteuk]

Does your vet allow you to phone up and speak to them to get more advice? I would try that today if you can, I'm concerned about the balance between stopping the prolapse but still allowing free exit of poo. Keeping her gut moving and passing poo is very important.

I think there must be something like the giardia or other extra issue that is causing a problem. If they have all been on the same diet for years with no problems, I think it's unlikely to suddenly be the sole cause of such a big issue.

There is a drug called metaclopramide that can be given to improve gut motility, it's quite widely used, might be worth asking the vet about.

I still think that fresh forage would be the best thing for her right now food wise, if you can get any and get her to eat it.

[elfkindler]

We have a vet appointment for Lucy on Wednesday. That's the soonest they can take her. Hopefully she'll hang on until then...
I called a local pet store to ask about a probiotic for her and they suggested a product called "Flora4". Does anyone here have any experience with it?

[yasmin]

I have no experience with Flora4.

The Critical Care should help.

It's winter, so fresh forage is more difficult to find, but you can buy cat grass in the Flowers section of most grocery stores and also many stores have organic chard, if your degus like that. I also feed mine the washed leaves of organic beets and leaves of organic broccoli and leaves from organic carrots. Some of my goos will eat organic squash - you can get it frozen in cubes that can then be "cooked" with a little water in the microwave. I then let it cool, mash it a bit and then offer the softest bits.

I agree with moletteuk that there is likely something else going on. Were any masses detected?

Heartfelt best wishes that you see improvement soon. (Try calling the vet tomorrow morning – I have done that and been lucky enough to get in earlier because of a last minute cancellation.)

[deguconvert]

Me too, heart felt hopes for her healing and recovery!!