Help! One of my degus won't eat!

[degudad]

Hi, I have a long story but I'll try to make it short as I can.

My partner has two families of degus, one of six (Mum, Aunty & four daughters) and one of 3 young sisters.

Sylvie, the "runt" of the family of 6, got knocked down the cage stairs by her sisters squabbling over treats, and we had to take her to the vet for x-rays.  No bones broken, some possible joint or ligament damage, so they advised cage rest on her own for 4-5 weeks. 

She was very finicky over food to start with, so we moved her cage nearer to her family and started exchanging bedding to get the scents mixed.  At first she rallied round and started eating quite heartily, nuggets, selective, mr, johnsons, burgess excel etc.  But we've tried several times to re-introduce her to her Mum, as a prelude to rejoining the family, and mummy hasn't reacted well, we've had a couple of near-FBOD's.
 
Some people have suggested this is because hormones are high at the moment, and said we should wait til April before trying again.  But in the meantime she's gone right off her food.  Right now she insists on being hand-fed, or just picking small treats out of my palm.  Her diet consists mostly of pea flakes, croc treats, parsley drops, the occasional bit of porage oats and vita verde, which I know is really not healthy, but she turns her nose up at everything else. She spends all day banging away at her "piano" (wooden hanging chew toy) and hardly stops to eat or rest.

We tried moving the family even closer, some of them would come up to the bars and whiffle at her, but she seemed to ignore them and try to drown them out with her piano.  I'm afraid she has become so depressed at her enforced solitude, and rejection by her mother, that she's just going to slowly starve herself to death. I adore the little critter and am at my wit's end to know what to do.  I'd be grateful for any useful suggestions.

[savvy]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry to hear that you are havinot problems. It would help us understand the situation better if you could anewer a few questions.

Firstly, what cage do you have them in? Cage size can be a big cause of fighting.

Also the diet you described is really not ideal, pea flakes and crocs contain a huge amount of sugar which will lead to health problems. I would try putting degu specific food out for her, no animal will willing starve itself so she will eat it if little else is on offer. Try mixing some in with her food to get her used to it.

You also don't say how old the members of the groups are, this will also help us understand the dynamics of the group.

Just as an aside, are you sure they are all female?

[Deleted]

Hi there and welcome!!

Yes as Savvy has said, cage size plays a huge part in their dynamics.
For six degus you'll need an absolutely huge cage, and for three degus you'd need a modified Liberta or similar. Anything smaller will cause fighting due to lack of territory.

Yes, I know she's not eating but giving her sugary things like crocs and pea flakes really won't be helping her. So I'd really stop that.

Do you feed her any forage? Any seeds? What does she normally have before she stopped eating? Like what's her normal diet?

Age also plays an important factor as those below sort of 18 months can fight for dominance. Sex also plays a role in this too.

So if you could give us as much info as possible we can help

[degudad]

HI savvycat

the fighting is going on outside the cage, in a play pen, when we try to reintroduce Sylvie to the mother - not in the cage itself. Sylvie is presently in a PAH chinchilla cage, the rest of the family are in a 2-tier cage similar to a Liberta. We are reasonably certain that they are all female. Sylvie and her sisters are around 1 year, we don't know the age of Mummy and Aunty because they are all "rescued."

I am aware that the diet is not ideal, but the degu-specific food that she was happy to eat three or four days ago now remains untouched. She has Beaphar Xtravital, Selective, and degu nuggets in her cage but does not eat them. Hay and fresh water go in daily but little of the hay is eaten though, she has a a little vitakraft vita verde which is hay and dandelion. If we offer her any of the others foods like burgess excel or mr johnsons, she just turns away and shakes her back leg. Or she will take one piece, "bury" it, and ignore it.

Someone has suggested we take her toy away to make her focus more on eating and less on "playing piano" but I'm afraid she will only become more depressed without it. Now her leg has had 5 weeks rest we've given her a wheel back, but she doesn't make much use of it.

[Deleted]

Hi degudad,

A Liberta style cage can only really house a maximum of 4 degus that's if you modify the half levels into full levels. You'd need two joined together to house a group of six.

The only nuggets we really recommend are Science Selective, the ones specifically made for degus. Degus need more than just nuggets and hay however. I think it would be beneficial if you read through our diet page and read through the 50/50 marked section. That shows you what a degu needs in their daily diet. They need lots of different forage - unlimited access to it and a teaspoon of a seed mix that you can make your self or get from ratrations.com every day too.

I wouldn't take her toy off her. She's probably not eating because degus don't really necessary like nuggets per se, they need the other things mentioned and that you'll read about in the diet section.

Please read it and let us know if you have any questions.

[degudad]

Hi Emily

you replied while I was writing! There is no real fighting going on in the cage, in fact the family get on pretty well, except for treat time, when they are inclined to squabble. That's how Sylvie got injured. It's a two-tier cage with four levels and a host of platforms, lava ledges etc. that we've added. Before we rescued them they were living in a fish tank.

In her normal diet prior to the accident she was having nuggets, selective, hay, seeds, and a selection of grasses, flower petals, herbs etc, but since being on cage rest she's grown incredibly finicky and though we've tried to keep her diet varied she often just has one bite and turns away. I'd be pleased to ease up on the treats if I can be assured she will eat sensible food for herself, but she's not really giving me any encouragement in that department!

[Deleted]

Hi degudad, I'm sure there home is much better than the fish tank! However they are cramped with the size they have. Could you possibly look out for a second hand Liberta style cage to join on? Degus need running space more than platforms you see, for they are not climbers.

I'm sure she's eating more than you're realising. Perhaps put it all in a bowl so you can check how much is being eaten? I really would hold back on the treats if she's not losing weight. Have you been weighing her and keeping a record?

What is the group of three living in?

[deguconvert]

Hello, Degudad, and welcome to the forum!

Sounds like a difficult time! It's hard to have an injury, conflict/introductions, and disinterest in food all happening at once. I am sure you feel at your whits end with it all, and I hope we can be of encouragement and help to you. I hope you won't mind me asking you some questions? Although, before I do that, let me just tell you I appreciate the huge improvement you gave the girls with the change of cage, from fish tank to Liberta. While it is rather small for six, it is certainly a great increase and improvement over what they had. We are not trying to pressure you to increase cage size right now, by making this observation, but to let you know that if you were to keep an eye out, or be able to find a way to again increase the cage size at some future point, your girls would be thrilled with it. We know that space in the home, as well as finances for the purchases, are things that can be hard to come by.

When you say that the fighting is occurring outside of the cage in the run . . . do you mean that the fighting is among the five girls still together when they are out in the run; or have you been putting Sylvie in with her family in the run and they fight there? Or have you put Sylvie back in the cage and all is well there, but not in the run? (Although I am pretty sure that you have been indicating that Sylvie is still in a cage by herself.) Momma degu could be rejecting Sylvie to try and chase her away from the colony because the cage doesn't support the whole group well. It may not have been an issue before, but now with one less in the cage, it is noticeable to them, and she is not welcome . . . not because they don't like her now, but because they feel their habitat can't accommodate the demand of another body. Sort of like how parent animals will chase adolescent youngsters off to go find their own territory in the wild . . . Momma is trying to do this with Sylvie, except that there is no where to chase her to in a cage, so things escalate into a more aggressive and violent state. Am I making sense?

Refusing food could certainly be associated with depression, and I think you are right to be concerned about getting more nutrition into her. In rodents, if their gut isn't processing food because they aren't eating, it can stop working altogether, which is a dire situation. Do you have access to Critical Care food, you may need to call your vet about it? It is nutritionally dense and can help her gut to recover and work well (if there is any trouble there), and some degus love it while other not so much. We have members that will crush sunflower seeds and blend them in, and that seems to be well received.

Did you ever notice if there is a particular family member that Sylvie liked to hang out with? If there is one that she was quite close to, perhaps you could put them together?

[yasmin]

What old is she?
Have you had a chance to weigh her? If so, is she losing weight?

[degudad]

I had not been back on the forum because a few days back Sylvie seemed to turn a corner, and started eating sensibly and well. However today this has changed and she is turning down food again, running in her wheel a lot, and whistling occasionally. We've tried pushing the family cage nearer to hers once more.

Once again I would stress that there has been no fighting, inside the cage or out, except when we have tried to do a one-on-one introduction between Sylvie and Mummy, which has ended in a scrap.

We have been advised not to try any more introductions until April, when the hormones start to die down a bit, but I'm still concerned about getting Sylvie successfully through another few weeks of depressing cage rest.

Thank you for all the advice about cage sizes, I would also stress that we are not in the position either financially or spatially to consider extensions at present.

[Deleted]

Could you please answer some more questions?

Like her age, her weight, whether you are able to regularly weigh her and so on? X

[degudad]

Hi all. Sorry I've been too busy to answer questions, three cages to clean, one degu to hand-feed, plus I've had work to do.

Sylvie's mood has changed again and she is once more eating better, no naughty treats now. We've been in touch with a lady who rescues and rehomes degus and she hopes to take Sylvie for a few weeks "convalescence," hopefully to pair her up with a new cage-mate or two, so she won't be coming home alone. She's going tomorrow, and we'll miss her madly, but I'm sure it'll be in her best interests, so thanks for all the advice you've offered.

One weird thing though - although Sylvie's Mummy has fought with her when they've been on "introductions," Mummy now spends a lot of time sitting in the corner of her cage, where she can watch Sylvie playing her piano. They don't seem to communicate, though there's a little bit of teeth-chattering going on sometimes. Any idea what they're saying? Is it "I miss you" or "I'm glad to see the back of you?" Any sensible suggestions welcome!

[savvy]

Is the teeth chattering accompanied by tail wagging? If it is it can be a sign of aggression. Also are they fluffing up when they sit like this as that would also be aggression.

Unfortunately degu language can be very hard to interpret without the body language they also use.

I think it will do Sylvie a world of good to have a cage mate.