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Post by bouncy on Jan 19, 2017 15:52:21 GMT
OK, take a deep breath. First of all, you're not a bad hooman slave. You noticed something was wrong, and took her to a vet who sounds far from competent. Any degu could have tooth issues from avoiding certain foods, bad mood, loss of appetite, but it's negligent of them to tell you to put them down without even checking the roots. Secondly, you're doing exactly the right thing by seeking additional and more informed advice. You've gone one step further by taking action based on this advice, and you clearly want the best for her. It might be worth getting into a routine of weighing the goobs on a monthly basis, perhaps weekly for your poorly one. We know from humans that a visual assessment of weight can be deceptive. It’s a good indication of when another tooth trim is required. As for fattening up, I keep a pot at home that's a mix of ground almonds, ground hazelnuts, milled flax, and oats. It's good for getting weight back on Don't take any of this personally - you're a good hooman slave! She's certainly got you wrapped around her little finger with the radiator and woodshavings!
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 15:52:41 GMT
Thanks very much for all your help & patience emdalliance. Can't stop ranting on here while sick with worry. I think grind is the way to go, she made it clear she's not a paste fan yesterday when the vet mixed some thick critical care paste and she turned it over with her paws. Then again if it involved tasty stuff maybe she'd think differently...
One VERY weird development is that she's now vigorously chewing her cage bars and running about annoying her sister despite her poorly mouth. Oh god. I wish she'd conserve energy.
The ability to lick is something she's lacked recently and I can see when that returns how much easier it will be to care for her calorie wise so it does give me hope. Being unable to lick or chew basically at all yesterday was v stressful when thinking about how to get calories into her.
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Post by bouncy on Jan 19, 2017 15:54:17 GMT
Ah, metacam has kicked in!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 15:58:49 GMT
Chewing bars is a good sign! She's using her mouth, so it can't hurt as much. Same with annoying her sister, she obviously in less pain as she's being annoying lol! But as bouncy said, you're doing a great job and don't forget that! coming here was a good move, a move some people don't make and their little goos get put to sleep.. as some vets don't want to deal with the issue because it's a small animal.. Okay! Try one lot of paste? Just make a small bit.. as you say if it's nice food and treats ground down she might take it better, if not then try grinding, it'll mean she's able to eat without having to chew anything big, and effectively can just be swallowed.
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 16:20:36 GMT
Thanks bouncy your replies made me laugh.
Attached is just a "zero quality of life" euthanasia candidate degu enjoying some echinacea nugget & sunflower seed paste!!! Have to say it smelled delicious. Sorry for bad lighting didn't want to startle her.
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 16:22:57 GMT
It does sort of look like she's eating entrails though. Oh well!
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Post by bouncy on Jan 19, 2017 16:45:56 GMT
I thought you were going to say she'd been sick!
You do have to wonder lol
Btw, do you have cat or dog strength metacam?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 16:50:06 GMT
Woohoo!!!!! Yay, I'm glad she's eating the paste, see tasty paste is the best even if it looks like the remains of something that fell from a very big height lol.
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 18:24:50 GMT
I thought you were going to say she'd been sick! You do have to wonder lol Btw, do you have cat or dog strength metacam? Dog 1.5 mg/ml I believe!
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 18:38:25 GMT
Woohoo!!!!! Yay, I'm glad she's eating the paste, see tasty paste is the best even if it looks like the remains of something that fell from a very big height lol. You're right! To be honest given how thin she is this is making me think twice about taking her as soon as tomorrow if I can get her to eat high calorie food. She still looks generally "unwell" after her op. I might take her Wednesday instead after much paste and care. First impressions do matter in care and I don't think I'd want the vet to see her like this when she's supposed to be a candidate for difficult surgery. He/she might just write her off. Her gut is obviously still working. Hmmmmmmm not at all sure what's the best option.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 19, 2017 19:26:46 GMT
If you can weigh her and report back, this is good info on her condition.
I would be tempted to go ahead with the consultation tomorrow, see if they can get a look in her mouth unsedated with the scope and see what they think, and see what you think of the vet. If possible, it is probably best to try to wait a week between sedations to reduce the strain on her body, but you could discuss that with the vet. The thing going against waiting too long is how bad the teeth are at the back and what strain that might be putting on her jaw joint when she tries to chew or close the mouth.
If you are seeing eye symptoms then its probably worth getting xrays done while they have her sedated.
Did you order the ratrations seeds? Experiment with pastes and critical care, baby food, crushed nuts & seeds, very fine forage pieces etc, anything she might like that doesnt need chewing.
Be careful with the metacam, 0.1ml of dog strength is a high dose.
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Post by bouncy on Jan 19, 2017 19:32:36 GMT
0.1mg dog is the daily dose that Scaredygoo has. You can keep as is, or break it into 2x 0.05mg. I think it's worth the consultation tomorrow too
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 19:52:56 GMT
I triple that notion, I'd definitely go tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 19:53:06 GMT
The vet should hopefully weigh her too.
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 20:14:18 GMT
The thing is this vet is an hour and 10 minutes away so it's no joke :/
If you were to ask me to take her on that journey right now I wouldn't do it I don't think - she looks weak compared to normal, but is comfy and slowly restoring. Do you think waiting until Wednesday could have a significant adverse effect? Her teeth at the back are definitely keeping her jaw open per the other vet's examination. Is it really possible that nothing at all could be done with the rear teeth or is it a case of equipment? The non exotics vet said she didn't want to even try on her rear teeth. It's very difficult to know what's best.
The ratration stuff is arriving tomorrow along with ground almonds and more sunflower seeds. I'm yet to get any baby food. Are there any preferred brands/types? Obviously vegetable!
I'll try and weigh her if she walks onto the scales as I don't want to force her - I don't think the number will be good.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 19, 2017 20:35:58 GMT
I think you need to speak to the vet and find out how things might proceed, but they will probably be better able to advise you once they have seen her. They will most likely want to do a consultation one day and then book her in for a full day for the procedure, there might be a wait for a slot, that's why I would get the wheels in motion. If you are worried about her coping with the journey, or even surviving the journey, then by all means use your judgement and wait until Sat or Mon or whenever you think for the consult. In my opinion she is unlikely to actually put much weight on until she has had the dental work done.
It's difficult to say, but i wouldnt have said it is a super specialist procedure to sort the back teeth. Maybe there are other issues or maybe the first vet is very inexperienced with degu dental work. Hopefully all will become clear when she sees another vet.
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 20:51:55 GMT
The fact she was acting normally on Wednesday morning too despite all her weight loss, but not QUITE normally now makes me think she needs a few more days to get over what happened on Weds... i.e. her condition now isn't purely because of her bad teeth.
I've made the mistake of overstressing a pet with vet treatment before. I will call the vet tomorrow morning to discuss as they said I could talk to the exotics guy if I wanted. They are open Sat morning if necessary.
Given how thin she is at the moment her metabolism must be rock bottom so hopefully she will put on something with high calorie offerings. The vet said they would be able to do the procedure same day and keep her before/after for as long as needed/I wanted. I must get this right. I think timing high calorie stuff with the metacam is a good idea as she really goes for it at that point.
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 21:05:13 GMT
I saw a review for "excellent" degu care on FB for - trinityvetcentre.com/ who are exotics specialists. These people are only 30 mins from me and it's a much more palatable journey for my weakened degu I think. I might give them a call. Sorry for spamming.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 19, 2017 21:07:14 GMT
OK, that sounds really good that they can do the procedure them same day as the consultation, so that takes away my concern that you could have to wait a few days even if you started tomorrow. Let's hope she bounces back a bit in the next couple of days, she should improve with some good food and the anaesthetic wearing off edit - cross post - you might as well give them a call and see what they say. You aren't spamming, we are here to help.
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jr
Foraging Degu
Posts: 90
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Post by jr on Jan 19, 2017 21:52:52 GMT
Thanks molette I'm just near enough convinced she can survive if I get everything exactly right - the former vet implied the weight loss alone was her death sentence I think, but my degu wants to eat, man! Already told my employer that between them and nursing the degu, it's the degu, sorry. Maybe I'm just mad. Made her some oat paste this time round and super successful. Will have to be careful not to overfeed her if she's not been eating much previously at this rate. The only thing missing from my degu support arsenal is baby food - would you know which brand and flavour has a good success rate?
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