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Post by titchycatnipsandwich on Dec 30, 2016 13:52:50 GMT
Do we have a thread anywhere for standard antibiotic/anti inflammatory doses? The specialist vet seemed very perplexed by the doses my regular vet gave to Zoe, but they looked the same to me as usual.
Metronidazole 200mg/5mL - 0.08mL once daily
Metacam (strength not stated) - 0.4mL once daily (vet diluted this, it's usually 0.1mL)
Baytril - 0.1mL twice daily
My degus are usually about the 200g mark, so I expected those doses, but the specialist vet thinks they're wrong. I'll come back later with her recommendations, but I'm just curious what everyone else usually gets.
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Post by moletteuk on Dec 30, 2016 15:36:29 GMT
Metacam is usually 1 to 3 drops once a day of cat strength, but an initial dose of up to 6 drops has been known for short periods.
Baytril varies a bit, but I asked the forum this earlier this year and the answer came back that most people are being given quite a bit more than the degutopia suggested dose, most of us get 0.08 to 0.1ml twice a day.
Those doses are for a 250g degu.
Haven't come across metronidazole before.
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Post by bouncy on Dec 30, 2016 19:32:29 GMT
I can only speak to metacam. My standard exotics vet has prescribed 0.1ml of cat strength metacam. The degu specialist vet near me has done quite a bit of research into dose tolerances of exotics, especially goos (he also keeps them), and he's happy to prescribe three times that of the other vet. This means 0.3ml of cat strength, or 0.1ml of dog strength. As an initial dose to get on top of pain, he's also prescribed the 0.1ml dog strength twice a day for a couple of days. Scaredy has been taking the stuff for about 10 months on the specialist dose, and he's doing just fine  |
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Post by titchycatnipsandwich on Dec 30, 2016 20:12:33 GMT
So, specialist vet Molly has prescribed for Zoe's facial abscess:
Metacam 1.5mg/mL (dog strength) - 0.1mL BD (1.5mg/kg twice daily)
Metronidazole 200mg/5mL suspension - 0.08mL BD (16mg/kg twice daily, approximately)
Baytril 2.5% solution - 0.1mL daily (12.5mg/kg daily)
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Post by titchycatnipsandwich on Dec 30, 2016 23:11:36 GMT
So I did some digging on the veterinary medicines directorate, and found the SPC for Baytril.
The manufacturer recommends 5mg/kg BD for small mammals, although they do advocate calling their information line and consulting local policy for specific cases.
Zoe is currently getting 12.5mg/kg as a single dose each day. I wouldn't kill for a copy of a pharmacokinetic/dynamic study of Baytril in degus, but I'd be really interested to see one if it existed. Which it probably doesn't. Because no one except me is interested in this stuff.
That said, my job means I know where to find these things. I laughed when my first vet told me that it was classified information and I couldn't have it. It's not classified, it's freely available and if I've signed a waiver that I know we're using human medicines in my critter, I know where we are in the veterinary cascade for medication and I know where I can find the information from the manufacturer. Sorry, I'm rambling now, but I'm a pharmacist. Medicines are my job, and "you can't have this information about medication" is not a reason, it's a challenge.
I could make a post to be stickied that has the actual information in it if that would be useful? Ie links to the manufacturer's information that they provide about the various medications, and where to look if your degu has been prescribed a human medication. Also what has to happen before you get a human medication for your critter, and how that all works. Would that be of use? (It'll be UK based, but the info should be applicable and available whenever you are.)
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 31, 2016 4:09:44 GMT
I don't know what to think . . . not sure if there are ramifications to having this on the forum? Could there be? But it does sound like good information though!
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Post by goolover on Dec 31, 2016 9:11:11 GMT
Just been prescribed anti inflammatory cat strength (Meloxicam) for my girls ear infection. She weighs 240g and the vet worked out a dose of 0.08ml once daily and baytril 2.5% solution 0.1ml daily. Been taking since Wednesday and she's doing just fine, so far so good.
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Post by titchycatnipsandwich on Dec 31, 2016 10:07:18 GMT
I don't know what to think . . . not sure if there are ramifications to having this on the forum? Could there be? But it does sound like good information though! I don't know about ramifications :/ for the UK information, it's all freely available on the Internet, it's just awkwardly worded as it is law and policy. If you want, I can make it in a word document and send it to you and the other mods and you can decide whether you want to use it? I'm not gonna be upset if you don't want it  |
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Post by moletteuk on Dec 31, 2016 18:18:32 GMT
I don't have a problem with it on forum as long as it as presented as information that people can assess for themselves. Sounds very interesting |
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 31, 2016 21:38:39 GMT
Alright!! Just wanted the opinions of some others. Sounds like you have a "go for it", Titchycatnipsandwich!
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Post by Emziedee on Jan 2, 2017 3:40:30 GMT
Tibbs was prescribed 0.09ml Loxicom twice daily
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 2, 2017 17:11:13 GMT
I think Loxicom is another name for meloxicam or metacam, so that's another interestingly high dose, was that cat or dog strength?
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Post by titchycatnipsandwich on Jan 9, 2017 11:17:55 GMT
Thursday, Molly switched Zoe from Baytril+metronidazole to doxycycline (Ronaxan). She made it up as a suspension with lactulose, which he ate happily but did not last, so the emergency vet over the weekend gave me two tablets of 100mg, a 20mL syringe and a bottle.
The suspension concentration is 200mg/20mL, or 10mg/mL, and his dose is 0.1mL BD.
0.1mL = 1mg, and he weighs ~200g -> dose = 5mg/kg BD.
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 9, 2017 14:57:34 GMT
How is he looking today?
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 9, 2017 16:16:52 GMT
The whole suspension method seems useful for getting smaller doses of drugs that only come in human or dog sized doses. I know that I have had discussions with the vet where one or two drugs were ruled out because it would be impossible to accurately give a small enough dose.
I presume it is very dependant on what drug will disolve/suspend in what liquid and stay disolved or suspended? Is that information that a pharmacist could usually accurately give?
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Post by titchycatnipsandwich on Jan 9, 2017 21:00:42 GMT
It's certainly information we can obtain:D like today, talking to Molly, and she wasn't sure that doxycycline in water would be stable for long enough to make it cost effective. But human doxycycline tablets dissolve im water and are stable for up to 1 week at 95% potency, so the vet tablets would be the same, and so she was happy to do it this way instead,
As I work in a human hospital, I only really have access to sources for information on human medication. There are pharmacy journals you can subscribe to that have directories of both human and veterinary medication and the various dilution/compounding options available.
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