It had to be on Christmas Eve :(

[titchycatnipsandwich]

Zoe has just all of a sudden started looking very scraggly, moving very carefully and not being able to pick up nuts with his teeth (this is the degu who was the first to figure out nuts were food). He's climbing as normal, but actually walking around, he just looks ungraceful and wobbly. He's got a lump on his spine which he doesn't complain about when I poke/stroke it, but it doesn't flatten either. He's got puffed out cheeks, his fur is all awry and when I collared him to have a look, his teeth are broken on one side (so one long and short tooth on top, one long and short on the bottom). This is again, assuming it's Zoe - I tell Zoe and Nyota apart by size, as Zoe has always been huge compared to Nyota, except now he's not.

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When I look at their weights over the last few months, both boys have been losing gradually. In August Nyota was 250g, Zoe was 300g - now someone is 191g and someone is 201g. At the beginning of this month, Nyota was 231g and Zoe 253g. I cut out the PaH pellets in July, moving to grainless instead, and figured the weight loss was secondary to that (everyone's lost about 30g from August since cutting those out) but Zoe's lost 50g at least in less than a month, and it doesn't seem right at all. Everyone else looks "healthy" while being smaller, but Zoe doesn't.

flic.kr/p/Qw8zvV

He's also got eye goo. I haven't got a better description than that. I assume I can wipe that away with salt water for now?

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i haven't a hope of getting him into the vets until Boxing Day. And to make matters better/worse (depending on desperate sarcasm level) I've got no carry box to take him to the vets in.

Ladies and gents, I'm desperate not to lose a second degu this year. How do I get him through tonight, tomorrow and through to Boxing Day so he can be checked out?

(In the meantime, I'm taking advice from a vet friend who is not degu-specialising, but has a working knowledge of small animals)

[savvy]

Oh I am so sorry, its always when you need it the least.

I have limited knowledge but, I'd give him a heatpad and try him with vegetable baby food or mashed up veg if he won't eat, either that or critical care if you have some. Try various nice foody things to see if there's one he just can't resist.

As you said with the eye, all you can do is keep bathing it with salt water.

[titchycatnipsandwich]

I guess my two main questions are:
1. How quickly can they lose weight? Like, I do fortnightly weights but missed last week due to life crap. Should I really be doing weekly weights?
2. What are teeth spurs, how do you tell if that's the issue and can it wait until Monday for him to be seen if that's the case?

[ntg]

So sorry to hear about Zoe's troubles. Particularly at this time of year when everything happens to be shut (although I imagine emergency vets should be available).

To answer your questions, degus can lose weight very quickly. I wouldn't be shocked if they could manage to lose so much in a month as they are highly active animals and rely on high energy foods to keep them going. I wouldn't expect to see such a big drop from changing pellets though, I've changed food for my boys to grainless feeds and noticed no major weight loss as its a sign that they probably require more food like an oil seed mix alongside what they're eating. What is there diet currently?

As for what spurs are, degu teeth are constantly growing, but sometimes they start to grow sharp little growths (spurs) in unusual directions like to the side or downwards that become very uncomfortable for the degu of left untreated. The spurs can pierce the sides of the mouth, or trap and injure the tongue and cause infections but can easily be burred down by a vet when the degu is under anaesthetic.

I'd also be concerned about the possibility of overgrown roots in the teeth, particularly with the watery eye and the change in behaviour, it might mean that the roots have overgrown into the eye socket or perhaps towards the brain but only an xray can confirm this and then you can only really give them palliative care.

Where abouts are you based? As someone may be nearby who could lend you a travel cage or maybe have some critical care that you could use in the meantime.

As for foods to try, have you got any ground nuts or a food processor you could use to grind some? It's not ideal on a long term basis but as long as he's eating something (safe) it's better than him having nothing at all!

[titchycatnipsandwich]

The emergency vet is possibly available, but I'm doubtful whether they could do anything for a degu. There is only one exotic vet in this area, and she covers quite a wide range of places.

Their current diet is (all fed freely):
Gertie's grainless Guinea pig pellets
RatRations seed mixes, 2:1 mix of their standard and treat mixes
A plant leaf mix from the German pet food website recommended in the food section
Hay (it's available but they don't eat it)

And they also get a nut per week each, usually a hazelnut but it can be whatever hard-shelled nuts I have to hand.

He's only looked scruffy in the last day or so, which makes me suspect it's a newish problem.

I'm based in Prescot, Merseyside, UK. If all else fails I shall stab some holes into a Tupperware box and take him in that. I'm mainly perplexed as to where the two big carry boxes I had have gone.

Food wise, I spoke to a friend who is a vet, and while she isn't degu trained she suggested taking a mixture of what he would normally be eating and blending it up with water. As that looked pretty similar to the ill degu food recipe higher up in this section, I did that, and he's eating it from a teaspoon- but very oddly, which really makes me think it's teeth issues. Her other suggestion was to keep an eye on peeing and pooping (kinda tricky in their giant cages) and to look out for bloating and constipation - but as she doesn't know degus very well, wasn't sure how I would do that.

[yasmin]

Is it possible that he's had a small stroke?

For now, make sure he is eating and drinking. It is good that he is eating from a teaspoon.

To check if he is peeing or poking, put him in an area away from the others and line it with paper towels (a box, or an area on the floor that is fenced in with boxes). You can put some treats in there – like thawed green peas, rolled oats, organic rice puffs – and let him walk around there for a while. (Maybe put in some sticks and paper toweling for him to hide under etc.) Then see if he has peed or pooed. If you count out the number of each treat, you can also see if he is eating any of them by himself.

[titchycatnipsandwich]

On the upside, I think the spine lump is his spine, but minus his usual padding that is making him look an odd shape, where normally he is round.

[moletteuk]

Do your best to get any food into him and watch him, see what you can figure out. Have a feel along his jaw for bumps which could indicate overgrowing roots. The weight loss is a big concern, if you think of it as a percentage of their previous weight, they have both lost a lot. If they are very poorly they can lose 15 to 20g in a day, the weight can just fall off them.

The lump on the spine concerns me, my Molly had spondylitis (or spondylosis or both ??), she had possibly fractured her spine, and the spine had thrown out a spur of bone, anyway the vet told me it was likely to be v painful and we did see evidence of this, she was fur chewing on her leg and didn't like to raise her head, so you could look out for clues like that.

You may be looking at anaesthetic and xrays and full teeth check, so you will probably need a normal vet appointment to have that available with support staff etc. On the plus side if this is a slowish decline that has recently got a bit faster, than a couple of days might not make too much difference. As I say, use the time to feed loads in any way you can and observe.

[titchycatnipsandwich]

On the upside, a friend is a vet in Germany, and has unofficially found me a dose for ibuprofen for small critters. I intend to obtain metacam asap, but in the meantime I can try and alleviate some of the pain (we've gone for half the recommended dose as I'm having to dissolve a tablet and give a measured volume, and I can't do it accurately- no syringes- so half the dose gives us an idea of if it's working and gives me some reassurance that I'm not going to overdose him).

(Even more weirdly, the dose for rabbits for ibuprofen is 3x higher than the dose for humans)

I will keep feeding goop and shall book both them in on Monday if I can - and maybe River and Miho in a week or two to get checked over.

[bouncy]

The weight loss is quite dramatic! There may be teeth issues (molars rather than incisors) that need sorting. If they don't take to squishy food, try oats, or ground nuts. The latter is usually found with other home baking (think petrol station with small supermarket attached. This higher calorie food should help with the weight loss. If you're reluctant to go to the emergency vet, calories, fluids and warmth may keep them going until Wednesday.

How has their poo and drinking been?

[titchycatnipsandwich]

Pee and poop wise, in 20 minutes in a box lined with kitchen roll (coincidentally the length of time taken for him to figure out how to escape),I have one moderate pee puddle and 5 tiny hard poops. If normal is 10mm long and 3-4mm wide, these are 5mm img and at best 2mm wide.

I'm gonna try the emergency vets now.

[bouncy]

That sounds good.

Keep us posted! Have my fingers crossed for you

[titchycatnipsandwich]

Ok, so both good and not-good news.

Not-good news - the emergency vet couldn't find anything wrong. I took Nyota along with Zoe so that the vet had a healthy degu to compare to. But now Nyota's limping... I had to cycle to the vets with them snuggled carefully into a rucksack, and now I'm wondering if I've damaged him :/

Good news- the vet did not charge me for telling me there appears to be nothing wrong.

I'll book them both into their regular vets on Wednesday.

[ntg]

What did the emergency vet to examine them?

They're pretty resilient. Try not to worry too much about Nyoto at this moment as he'll probably be more willing to walk on it tomorrow. Most of the time it's only a slight sprain. Don't give her any painkillers unless absolutely necessary though as it might encourage him to use it more and injure himself further.

[spottydegu]

I once sorta sat on Drum. She limped for a little bit but was fine. Don't worry about it.

[bouncy]

Squidgy spends half his time running around on three legs - I'm sure he'll be fine.

When you see your vet on Wednesday, ask about xrays/examination for the teeth. That's a heck of a lot of weight loss!

[titchycatnipsandwich]

The emergency vet did not do X-rays, as she could find nothing to indicate that he needed them, despite me saying teeth issues... So, yeah, I don't believe there's nothing wrong. He doesn't seem to be able to open his mouth wide enough to pick up a hazelnut - picked up a Brazil nut ok, because it's pointy, but he's buried it rather than eating it.

So my job tomorrow is to book in at my regular vets and hope they're more willing to listen to me. They were when River wasn't right, so I'm hopeful.

[yasmin]

Dec 26, 2016 9:49:50 GMT titchycatnipsandwich said:

He doesn't seem to be able to open his mouth wide enough to pick up a hazelnut - picked up a Brazil nut ok, because it's pointy, but he's buried it rather than eating it.
.

I hope it is not temporal mandibular joint dysfunction (TMJ). (I lost my Meiyo to that and my Ichi is now suffering from it. She can only eat Critical Care with baby food, and ground up sunflower seeds/nuts combined into a paste with water. She was able to eat rolled oats but seems to be having trouble eating these now. Metacam helps with the inflammation and pain making her feel more comfortable, but she cannot chew; she can only lick up foods.)

For TMJ, it may not show up on an x-ray. Molar root issues will show up on an x-ray. Spurs can be seen by sight via a scope and/or via anesthesia and visual examination. Hopefully the issue is a spur that can be removed.

Best of luck at the vet.

[deguconvert]

Will be watching to see what you learn with your regular vet.

[moletteuk]

Good luck today.