med dosages

[saggy]

Hey guys, I just want to quickly check the meds I'm giving fatsy as I don't know why but my gut keeps telling me it's too much.

Metacam Oral Suspension for dogs 1.5mg/ml -  dose prescribed 0.3ml once daily.

Baytril 2.5 oral solution  - 0.15ml once daily

I suppose I'm more worried about the metacam? is this too much, I've been spreading it out a little bit because of gut but just gave her more as thought well she hasn't seemed off from it yet but don't like the way she's reacting at the mo?

Also, they gave me a small syringe to measure it, and one side lists 10 to 100 in increments of tens with just the word "units" underneath and the other side lists 0,1 0,2 0,3 and so on until it gets to 1. This has ml/cc written underneath so assumed that I should be giving her from the 0,3 mark for the metacam assuming this meant 0.3 ml as ml written underneath and obviously in between 0,1 and 0,2 for the antibiotics.

Does this all sound okay to you?? Should I be using the side with increments of 10s which obviously would be far smaller??

[bouncy]

My experience is with Metacam.

Normally, a vet will prescribe cat solution (one third of the dog solution) and usually 0.1ml. You have to bear in mind that it's not licensed in this country for degus (or rodents generally), so dosing is generally based on cats and weight. I have to sign a disclaimer when I collect it from the vet for this reason.

However, I've had experience of higher doses, which were given by a goo specialist. This person has done additional research into dosing. He's researched dosing, metabolising, and side effects.

One of mine has arthritis. Initially, we started with the standard 0.1ml of cat, but it didn't make any difference. The vet then consulted the specialist and was told either 0.3ml of cat, or 0.1ml of dog twice a day. I gave this initially then, as this is long-term, we've now reduced to this dose once a day.

I can only comment on my experience and reading, but my initial dose was 6x the normal daily dose in total, and yours therefore appears to be 18x! It might be worth double checking on the phone tomorrow.

[saggy]

Nah it's partly because I don't trust the vets anyway! I didn't misunderstand either as it's on a sticker they put on the box. They never made me sign anything? Umm I didn't like the way she reacted so will reduce. Thanks Bouncy.I definitly need to find a more degu specific vets I think. That will be my job tomorrow

[bouncy]

It doesn't mean the dosing is wrong. They might have new information? I was just curious in case they'd given you dog instead of cat.

[saggy]

I know, but with what you said plus her reaction, I think I'll veer on the safe side. It's doesn't seem to be making much difference to her anyway? What would you look out for to tell how much pain they're in, or would her emotional state be making her ignore it that much?

[moletteuk]

That's too much metacam! Standard dosage is 1 to 3 drops once a day of cat strength (0.5mg/ml), with a possible initial dose of up to 6 drops for a few days. As Bouncy says, dog strength is triple that of cat. One drop is equivalent to about 0.05ml.

It should say on your syringe what the volume of the whole syringe is, this should enable you to figure out what the graduations mean. Normally they give you a 1ml syringe, so the bigger marks about a cm apart are 0.1ml and the tiny marks are 0.01ml.

Baytril is best given twice a day, so split what you have been give over two doses if possible, give 0.075ml twice a day

[saggy]

Glad I went with initial gut then and didn't give her full dose from the start, there had been no reaction up til then so thought maybe I was being stupid (as like I said, was literally only a gut instinct) so gave her a little more yesterday - maybe 0.2ml and as mentioned, didn't like the reaction so thought I'd best check on here!

I was just checking the syringe in case it was me getting it wrong.

Thanks molette

[bouncy]

saggy, Scaredyygoo got his name because of his reluctance to be as mischievous as the other two. Over time, he stopped using the dust bath, and there was constant fighting between him and Spidergoo during free range time. I know this fighting is because Spidey (alpha) knew he was in pain, so would bully Scaredyygoo back into the cage where he was "safe".

I know the metacam is working because the bullying disappears, and he's more mischievous than usual (mostly in getting to tasty morsels the others haven't noticed because they're too busy eating the wheels on the bottom of the cage). He's also braver with dusting. Over the course of two weeks (free range), he starts walking around with the side of his face on the floor through the spilt dust, to climbing into a special low tray of dust doing the same, to having several good rolls in the low tray. He still can't manage the goldfish bowl like the others, even with a step, because he still has trouble lifting his front paws up in a forward movement (although he can pirouette like a ballerina). It does take a few days before it sufficiently brings down inflammation to have a noticeable effect.

[saggy]

That's the thing, fatsy's not showing any sign of reluctance to do anything. I've had to take the wheel out for her to try and rest it as was still using it, still has dust baths, still jumping down from quite high up, the only obvious thing is her obession with trying to get out the age, down to the other two, but this is understandable - she's almost being too risky which is why I thought maybe she's so upset emotionally, that she's ignoring it. She was holding her paw up when not in use before the last injury which was the only sign but she is no longer doing this. Obviously starting on little one could have been because more grumpy because of pain, but she definately is not showing any although it looks terrible lol. She obviously winced a lot when we tried to pull the bit of bone off but she doesn't wince if I gently touch it. Was just wondering if she actually needs the metacam although I suppose it will help with inflammation anyway. Maybe she's lost some sensation or possibly even circulation in the finger meaning it's not hurting like it should - I dont know lol! The vet finally sent the pic so will post in a mo.

[saggy]

I spoke to the vets again, and they were more than happy with the dosage but I think I agree with you guys and my gut. Will hopefully find a better vets today. They were going to refer me to a specialist in andover but don't know what they are like either. I'll do some research now.x

[bouncy]

The specialist in Andover is John Chitty. This is the person my vet consults of more specific matters.

[moletteuk]

It's definitely worth asking yourself if she needs the metacam if it is making her more active and resting less. If the bone isn't showing any signs of coming off, then I think it probably is going to need surgically removing, otherwise I can't see how it will heal properly.

It's good that you sort of have a double recommendation for John Chitty in Andover now. We also have a couple of places in Hampshire recommended on our list, Downland vets regularly do dental work under anaesthetic for at least two of our members, so they could probably do a toe amputation with no trouble deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15521/vet-guide?page=1

[saggy]

Thanks Bouncy, yes that's what his name was, John Chitty, well I shall wait to see what he says but maybe he's expensive as well. I think I have just found myself a betters vets than companion care off the recommendations on here. A vets in Emsworth. They seemed really lovely on the phone and more than happy to help, they looked at the dose of metacam but they did actually agree with it. However, because Fatsy had a weird reaction straight after last night with a higher dose, it was like a weird cough but not if that makes any sense and she def a bit too woozey after for my liking, so I will keep it a little lower and keep an eye out. Maybe it just doesn't suit her!

They gave an estimate for the toe amputation and said £170 approx which is hugely better. Their general consultation prices were half the price as well. The guy who's best for degus is back from hols next week and I think fatsy will be fine until then. I think she's okay but the fact that it just keeps getting busted again and again when boxing/fighting as is higher than the other fingers and therefore sticking up, and in case the pain will make her more grumpy, I think long term, it will be best to come off so reintros or any further fighting will be less problematic and maybe more successful. Plus I'm not so happy with the circulation and the fact that some bone has already made it's way out and wont come off.

[saggy]

Well the bit of bone has made it's way out but is stuck to the outside, we couldn't pull it off as stuck to the skin, it might still come off but we'll see, it's not as inflamed today and she's not bleeding but yes, I still think it needs removing as the top finger bone is that broken, it's just like a bit of floppy skin so it's definately never going to heal and prob just keep getting aggravated one way or another.

Sorry cross post Molette, yes it was downlands I contacted - they sounded good on the phone if that's possible lol!

[bouncy]

Someone else on here uses the Emsworth vet, and really rates them!

I expected to receive an invoice via my vet for his time, but he didn't charge for another vet asking his advice

[saggy]

And it doesn't seem to make a difference with or without the metacam - I haven't given any to her today yet and she's still not resting! I meant she's doing all those things with or without it?

[bouncy]

How long has she been on it? It's not strictly a painkiller, but an anti-inflammatory. It can take up to a week before you start seeing noticeable improvement, because it can take consistent, regular dosing to get from severe inflammation and pain to lots of inflammation, to moderate inflammation....... I had to learn this with my own drugs.

[saggy]

Thanks bouncy, I hadn't really thought about it that way, I will stick with it then and see if helps to calm her down

[bouncy]

Cool. It might also be that she needs those initial twice daily doses (as prescribed) to kick-start the process

[saggy]

Here's the pics of her poor little finger