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Post by winic1 on May 10, 2016 12:43:24 GMT
Chester is still with us, but after a bit of a rally, is having more and more difficulty. For a couple of weeks, it looked like he was getting stronger, and adapting to his new disability (appears he had a small stroke, leans to the right, is weaker on his right side, falls over if he moves too fast, circles to the right a lot before getting going the way he wants).
But now he falls over more and more, and scrabbles desperately to right himself each time. Ends up spinning in a circle before he manages to get going forward, and then often by traveling around the "furniture" by leaning his right side against it and working his way around to where he wants to be. Walks just 2 or 3 steps, pauses, manages a couple more, pauses, with lots of big, body-shaking twitches at times. He seems to do better standing and sitting on pieces of bark than on the smooth floor and ramp, so I have to go get more sheets of bark for him.
He's still eating, he gets unlimited dried veggies and seeds, doesn't touch the pellets anymore, occasionally nibbles on some hay. Won't eat the rose petals I offer, which used to be his favorite. Tends to fall over when he does reach up for a treat, balancing on just his back legs is hard.
He still comes up to the bars to see me, and hope for something, even if he doesn't take it or eat it. He noses briefly at the boys on the other side of the divide (he had his stroke before we got them together, and now he couldn't begin to defend himself or run away from them, so the divide remains), then sits in the sunny spot at the bottom of the ramp to his upper levels. Not going up there hardly at all anymore, if food wasn't missing from the upper bowl, I'd say never, but he must have been up there at least once in the last day or two.
I find myself wishing he would just let go, and then feeling guilty for it, but it is so hard to watch him struggle. He is not used to being handled, so taking him to the vet for his final rest would be cruel. He's still eating and coming out of his hut to sit on his bark log or sunny spot, so I'm not sure it's time yet. I'm trying to convince myself that it's harder on me than him, still, but I'm not so sure anymore.
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Post by sarahraisin on May 10, 2016 12:50:19 GMT
As hard as it is to watch your little one suffer in pain, if he's trying to move around he can't be in that much pain, he's still moving around and eating and drinking that's a very good sign. If they don't eat or move much that's a sign of depression so wih yours he must be happy to be with you. I personally myself wouldn't stress him out for the sake of taking him to the vets as in the wild he would cope on his own and would be far worse off then he is at the moment. I would maybe invest in some stuff called 'carefresh' they sell it in pets at home or should find it online, it's a soft bedding so will be gentle if he falls or on his feet. Stay strong! Just keep thinking he's not sad, he's happy!
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Post by bouncy on May 10, 2016 13:25:37 GMT
It is tough. However, you can only rely on your judgement of what you can see. As long as you feel he has a quality of life, and is not put out by his health, then that's one thing. Once you deem he's reached that time when he really has had enough, whether he likes being handled or not becomes irrelevant. I'm sure the vet will find a way to cause the least distress. Hugs at this very difficult time *comfort*
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Post by winic1 on May 10, 2016 14:57:58 GMT
Thinking of taking away the ramp and restricting him to just his lower level. I have not seen him fall off the ramp, because he does the wall-hugging thing when he walks, but I haven't seen him go more than just to the top of it but once in the last day or so. This would leave him with slightly more than one half of a single level of a Critter Nation cage. But he's hardly going anywhere, anyway, and then I know he can't tumble down from more than 2 inches high on top of his favorite bark tunnel. And the three boys who now have 2/3 of the cage could have two more half-levels up above, which I'm sure they would appreciate. Weren't supposed to be restricted to their portion for this long, intended to join them all and open it all up, but that's not how it worked out. Poor Chester. Sucks getting old. And yet, with his now tipped head and slow weight loss, he looks like he has this charming silly grin on his face when he does come out to see me.
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Post by bouncy on May 10, 2016 15:08:14 GMT
Oh bless him. I can imagine the cheesy goo grin - my dad's got one too now, but I have to look at his eyes to see whether he's laughing or not.
Taking away the ramp is probably a good idea, and Chester may even be grateful not to have to tackle it x
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Post by deguconvert on May 10, 2016 15:28:57 GMT
I think that sounds like a good idea, Winic. I am so sorry that he is slowly declining! It is hard to watch and to feel like you are doing the right thing. So far it seems that he is choosing life, so for you to choose life with him is a good thing.
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Post by moletteuk on May 10, 2016 17:05:20 GMT
It's so hard to watch. I don't think he will miss the upper levels. I don't know how warm it is with you, but it made me feel better to be able to give Molly 24hr heat pads while she was ill, I think it was a comfort to her, she would still stretch out and lay her head down.
I think he will cope with the trip to the vet OK if it becomes necessary, especially if you have a fairly enclosed carrier or one that you can wrap up. If you ask for gas before the injection they don't need to be restrained at any point, they can peacefully slip away.
My two recent ones let us know when they were ready and we were able to get them to the vet right away. I know immediate travel isn't always an option for you, I think you'll know when he isn't getting much out of his days that it's OK to take him, perhaps his weight loss, appetite, activity will all help you decide, if it comes to it, also watch for him hiding in the back of the cage rather than hanging out in look out positions.
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Post by winic1 on May 11, 2016 1:11:31 GMT
So, of course, this afternoon I look in on all the guys, and for the first time in days, Chester is asleep in the hut on the very top level.
(Just like we were looking at window shades for the new room we added on, and we said, well, the cats won't even go in there, let alone look out the windows, so shades would be okay, and we come home from the store to find Ferrari has taken up permanent residence in the center window.)
I probably could move that hut down to the bottom level, I think there's reasonable room to fit it down there next to the bottom-level hut.
I wonder, isn't there some kind of oral pain med that could be put on a treat to let him eat too much of it and just go to sleep? A kindly overdose? Then he could just go to sleep in his own bed.
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Post by yasmin on May 11, 2016 1:32:55 GMT
My heart goes out to you winic1. The only advice that I can give is that It may be that Chester's issues are more difficult on you that they are on him. I would leave the ramp and let him use all the levels he wants. The key is maximizing his quality of life while he has it. No way that you should O/D him on something – that will cause him suffering. When he is (you are) ready, take him to the vet and have it done humanely. I think moletteuk's response sums up the way I have dealt with this difficult time. (It is the way that I am trying to deal with my Makoto right now.) It's so hard to watch. I don't think he will miss the upper levels. I don't know how warm it is with you, but it made me feel better to be able to give Molly 24hr heat pads while she was ill, I think it was a comfort to her, she would still stretch out and lay her head down. I think he will cope with the trip to the vet OK if it becomes necessary, especially if you have a fairly enclosed carrier or one that you can wrap up. If you ask for gas before the injection they don't need to be restrained at any point, they can peacefully slip away. My two recent ones let us know when they were ready and we were able to get them to the vet right away. I know immediate travel isn't always an option for you, I think you'll know when he isn't getting much out of his days that it's OK to take him, perhaps his weight loss, appetite, activity will all help you decide, if it comes to it, also watch for him hiding in the back of the cage rather than hanging out in look out positions.
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Post by winic1 on May 17, 2016 20:17:07 GMT
So, Chester seems to go downhill for a few days, sleeping most of the time barely moving or eating, then he picks up for a few days, suddenly being out and changing levels in his part of the cage, and coming right up to the bars in hopes of a treat, even if he doesn't take it or eat it.
The today, I saw him out, and trying to go up the ramp to the middle level, but he fell over off his feet and rolled sideways off the ramp onto the bark log tunnel, continued tumbling down the side of that to the floor. (Which is a big part of why it has been placed like that, so if he fell, there's no drop, just a long roll down.) After a while, he got back up on the bark log, as he seems to be more stable on bark--I'm guessing the rough surface gives him better grip?--finally moved over to the ramp at its highest contact point, then lurched/ran up the ramp making it to close enough to the top so that when he fell over to the left he rolled into the middle level (it's a plastic tray, so there's a bit of a lip to cross).
After some time on the middle level, he was ready to continue to the top. There's a big wide curving piece of bark now covering the branch ramp, so that again, there's no drop off, just a slope of bark that goes back down almost to the floor of that level. Sure enough, he gets much of the way up, then falls over to the left and rolls down the bark to the floor again. Second try, he made it to the top, again by kind of throwing himself the last bit so he fell onto the level instead of back down below.
After a nap in the top hut, he stopped on the big bark ramp to look at me, so I gave him a treat, which he took and then fell over because he raised a foot to help hold the treat, and tumbled down into the corner where the ramp meets the far wall of the cage. Took a while to get himself up and out.
Since he had his stroke, it was always his right side that was weak, and he leaned and fell to the right, which is why he had taken to always walking around the edge of the cage so his right side was leaning against a wall or other support. But today, he's falling over to the left, which was his good, stronger side.
He still stops to go nose to nose through the divide with the boys, so I don't want to change the cage to cut off all access. A single half-level seems so small, even if he isn't moving well. But I could fit the second hut in his portion of the bottom level, and keep the first hut and the bark tunnel log in there, but that would be all. I could also move the middle level up several inches, so instead of being an 8" drop between levels, it would only be about 4", and cover most of the open edge with a sheet of bark so it was more of a ramp, and therefore a roll instead of a drop if he falls, and give him the two half-levels, moving most important features like first hut and bark log up there for him, leaving top level just the way it is with second hut. But we have to do something tonight, as he is now falling quite a bit, and in places he didn't fall before.
Give him a small, but safe, single half level where he loses most of the features he's had his whole life (one half of one full level of a Critter Nation cage), or a larger, two half level section with more of his familiar settings, but less safety as he could still fall over and roll down things when he does?
Getting old sucks.
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Post by winic1 on May 18, 2016 1:06:10 GMT
When hubby came home and we discussed making changes to the cage, and we watched Chester, we concluded it was best to do the single level choice. So, we cleaned the cage a bit, but not too much, and moved the second hut down, and when Chester came down to see what we were doing, we took out the ramp so he can't get back up.
With things being rearranged, as the bark tunnel changed direction in order to fit with the huts and not create a narrow space between anything (if he falls, he might not be able to right himself and would be stuck there) and the ramp and all access up is gone, he was both interested, and then got quite distressed, chirping and chirping and chirping. So, we quickly finished up cleaning up the 3 brother's half of that level, and let them back up to interact through the divider, which seemed to help.
Since I don't see any hope of him regaining any of his lost ability, we plan to close off the opening where his ramp used to go up to the two half levels above, and then open them up to the brothers to give them more space. Poor little Chester, it's tough getting old.
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Post by deguconvert on May 18, 2016 15:06:44 GMT
Yeah, it is tough getting old! For everyone! It must have ached in your heart, making these changes, hearing Chester chirping, and knowing that his limitations are not going to disappear. I ache just thinking of it myself. I'm sorry these changes had to come, but I'm so thankful that you and your husband were in agreement and worked together to accomplish it. How does Chester seem with the changes today?
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Post by moletteuk on May 18, 2016 15:44:58 GMT
I hope he settles to it and finds it helpful having everything close by. Makes me wonder a little if he had another stroke or something if he is weak on the other side too now
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Post by winic1 on May 18, 2016 20:55:06 GMT
I wonder if he had another stroke, too. He came out to see me and beg for a treat, which I of course gave him, and he fell over and fell over and fell over before he got it all under control and moved into the start of his tunnel. Then came back for another, don't know if he stashed it or just dropped it and figured it was easier to beg me than look for it. He hasn't been chirping in distress, and saw him coming out from underneath his second hut instead of out of the door, by lifting it up, so I guess he's adapting.
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Post by bouncy on May 19, 2016 8:03:53 GMT
It sounds like he's coping, and we know from humans that there is the possibility of improvement. What's his weight like over the last few weeks? Is it steady? It sounds like he's still enjoying life, especially where treats are concerned
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Post by winic1 on May 19, 2016 13:31:55 GMT
No, he is getting skinnier and skinnier. The 3 brothers are starting to look huge to me, when they were noticeably smaller than him when we first got them home. He is definitely eating, tho. He's just getting old. He'll be seven years if he makes it to next month.
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Post by winic1 on May 20, 2016 5:19:01 GMT
Tonight his left side is so weak, he is not walking so much as heaving himself around on his side.
It cannot be long now. Please don't let it be long now.
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Post by dops on May 20, 2016 10:01:32 GMT
i am so sorry, it must be so hard to see him get weaker and weaker. at least you are there with him every step of the way!
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Post by moletteuk on May 20, 2016 10:18:08 GMT
I'm sorry Winic.
Could you get him to the vet today, now you've got the feeling he's had enough?
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Post by deguconvert on May 20, 2016 15:19:00 GMT
How is he today, Winic?
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