Worried: XENO50 min spot-on treatment- possible ingestion

[newtothis]

Hi all,

Some of you have been following my thread regarding one of my degus loosing quite a bit of fur on his back, feet and tail. I have tried all recommendations made by my fellow degu lovers but he (Pepper) continues to loose fur. So today I took him to the vet. The vet I saw is clearly not experienced with degus and seemed unsure what to do - unfortunately, there are no vets near where I live who are confident in treating degus. He ruled out bacterial or fungal infection as the skin where the fur should be is grey and there are no scratches. He suggested mites could be the problem so he weighed Pepper then put a liquid called Xeno 50-min liquid on the fur near the bald patches. Degus are not on the list of small animals who can have Xeno treatment but the vet called the manufacturer who said it would be ok. Before he applied the treatment I told the vet that Pepper lives with 2 cage mates and so I asked - because the liquid is topical application only whether this would create a problem if his cage mates groomed him, in answer the vet suggested I wait for 15 mins for the liquid to dry before reintroducing Pepper to his brothers. Sorry now getting to the point:- I found out that the liquid is oil-based so it will take a life to dry - Pepper was very stressed after the visit to the vet (to the point of him being frozen to the spot!) and I knew that his 2 brothers would cheer him up so I waited 30 minutes (total time after application had been approx. 1 hour) then  I reintroduced him to his brothers. As expected Pepper came back to life! The liquid was all over Pepper so he rolled around in his sand bath on and off for a good 15 minutes. His brothers then started to lick the partly dried liquid off Pepper's coat and that got me worried. I rang the vet telling him that it has been over an 1hr (a lot longer than their recommendation) and the fluid is still not completely dry and that because I was worried about Pepper's emotional state he had to be put back in with his brothers - the problem I explained was that his cage mates are licking his fur to try and remove the liquid - I asked should I be worried....  The vet said that he would call the manufacturer of XENO 50 and them call me back. I got a call back from the vet informing me to remove Pepper from the cage where his brothers are and place him in isolation for 24h to give the liquid enough time to absorb and dry - it could be potentially toxic if ingested. I am worried - Pepper has the stuff all over him so some of it may very well get into his mouth and not to mention the liquid my other 2 will have ingested when they were grooming him. This whole 24h isolation thing is news to me!! -had I known that Pepper would have to be separated from his brothers for over a day I would have better prepared him (out of my 3 degus he is the most sensitive) plus it's lucky I have a spare cage at hand! (not happy) .. Have any of you had your degus treated with this liquid and if so how did you handle reintroduction with cage mates - I am worried about potential toxicity.

[moletteuk]

I've used it on hamsters but not degus. I think it's wise to be cautious with it and go ahead with the 24hr isolation, or at least until the morning. I don't think there is much you can do about the quantity already ingested so try not to worry about that, I guess encouraging fluids might help, but I'm not sure how you would do that, baby food, very dilute fruit juice? Perhaps you could phone the Xeno makers yourself and ask how long you should wait before Pepper can sand bath himself clean, I would use some sand for this that you can discard (but make sure you save some other sand for the reintroduction).

Are they a stable group or do you have particular reason to think you will have difficulty with the re-introduction? Is there anything you can do to make the separation less separate? Can you put Pepper's cage right alongside the others', or could you divide off an area for him within the regular cage? You can take substrate from the normal cage to put in Pepper's temporary cage and make sure everyone sandbaths in the same sand before they meet again.


For future reference it's normal for them to go completely still when they get home from the vets, it's difficult to say how upsetting it is for them, but how still they go and how long for don't necessarily indicate recovery time, and also their personality isn't such a big indicator as you might think. Bear in mind that they are deeply programmed to sit perfectly still in times of danger, it doesn't necessarily equate to a human being frozen in terror.

[newtothis]

Jun 5, 2015 15:04:26 GMT moletteuk said:

I've used it on hamsters but not degus. I think it's wise to be cautious with it and go ahead with the 24hr isolation, or at least until the morning. I don't think there is much you can do about the quantity already ingested so try not to worry about that, I guess encouraging fluids might help, but I'm not sure how you would do that, baby food, very dilute fruit juice? Perhaps you could phone the Xeno makers yourself and ask how long you should wait before Pepper can sand bath himself clean, I would use some sand for this that you can discard (but make sure you save some other sand for the reintroduction).

Are they a stable group or do you have particular reason to think you will have difficulty with the re-introduction? Is there anything you can do to make the separation less separate? Can you put Pepper's cage right alongside the others', or could you divide off an area for him within the regular cage? You can take substrate from the normal cage to put in Pepper's temporary cage and make sure everyone sandbaths in the same sand before they meet again.


For future reference it's normal for them to go completely still when they get home from the vets, it's difficult to say how upsetting it is for them, but how still they go and how long for don't necessarily indicate recovery time, and also their personality isn't such a big indicator as you might think. Bear in mind that they are deeply programmed to sit perfectly still in times of danger, it doesn't necessarily equate to a human being frozen in terror.

Hi Moletteuk, Thanks for your post. Pepper went back with his brothers late last night as the liquid had finally dried on his fur - he looked so sad in the old gerbil tank on his own. What I meant by reintroduction was reintroduction after a treatment like this, the liquid will dry but the chemicals will still be on his fur. I have replaced the sand in the sand bath so any droplets of the liquid that were in the sand are gone. The 3 boys get on excellently together - Pepper is the most submissive and nervous of the 3 so as soon as he was put back in the cage the 'boss' Max made sure Pepper remembered - neither Pepper nor Mendel challenge Max's dominance so all is harmonious in the cage.... They all seem happy and lively this morning. Thanks for you point RE degus sitting very still when in a new situation like a vets - I automatically assumed that Pepper was very stressed as I have never seen any of mine in that position - I do frequently hear the loud warning 'churp' when one of them gets spooked by something.

[deguconvert]

I am so glad they are all back together and happy! Pepper must feel much better today.

[moletteuk]

Good to hear it all went well and presumably no ill effects from the Ivermectin. Let us know if it seems to help the skin issue - if it does then the spot on treatment is usually applied 3 times at 7 to 10 day interval.

[newtothis]

Hi all,

All 3 of my boys are doing well. I have finally figured out the problem with their fur loss (especially Pepper) - lavender-scented wood shavings!! I bought a big bag of the stuff from P&H about 4 months ago and had been lining the cage with it (created a lovely smell in the playroom where I keep them) - the bag is marked as 'safe for degus'. I had been scratching my head trying to figure out why all 3 of the boys were loosing patches of fur - Pepper had large bald patches right down his back and across his shoulders (hence visit to the vet) - I thought diet, I thought over grooming and I thought mites - all wrong - the reason seems to be some kind of allergy to the purple lavender stain in the wood shavings. I stopped using the shavings about 3 weeks ago now and the difference is amazing - all 3 have glossy healthy looking fur again with only the tails having patches of baldness. It might be a coincidence of course (I did not see any scratching...) but I cannot see any other sensible explanation.

[moletteuk]

So glad you got to the bottom of this

I'm not that surprised it caused a problem, I really hate that stuff!

[deguconvert]

WOW!! Great sleuthing! So glad you have figured it out and that they are glossy and furry again. What a long haul it's been. I'm thrilled it is over now.

[newtothis]

Jun 29, 2015 7:17:41 GMT deguconvert said:

WOW!! Great sleuthing! So glad you have figured it out and that they are glossy and furry again. What a long haul it's been. I'm thrilled it is over now.

Thanks it certainly is! Only problem is I can't tell the difference between Pepper and Max anymore!  - they look identical! (the bald patches on Pepper allowed me to easily distinguish the 2 of them). Mendel is easy to identify because he is a grey and has more of a ratty face than the other two.