A log of the female degu's cycle

[blossombrooks]

Today is *I hope* daisy's peak day (day 21) It's hard to see her go through this and I'm really hoping tomorrow is better.
I forgot to mention sand bathing, she bathes a LOT while in heat. I let them both out for a run and daisy was quite distraught, to the point of squeeking with 'frustration'. She ran on the wheel almost constantly and between that raced around the room at super sonic speed. I noticed she scent marks a lot more too on this day alone. I really need a boyfriend for her! Trouble is there are no capable vets around here to perform the surgery. I would love degu babies so much but I know I couldn't give them away and keeping them wouldn't really be an option.

[moletteuk]

Wow, this is so interesting! I've never seen any signs of oestrus in my 3 girls, I'll keep a special eye out in the future though. I guess some goos are more affected by the hormones than others, same as humans and other species.
Try not to be too disheartened Blossom, I think you have done so well to suss out what is going on with Daisy. Maravilla's experience of keeping girls with a neutered male sounds good. Maybe you could go a bit further afield to find a vet to do the op, since it's just a one off operation? Have you tried contacting local rescue places to ask what vet they use?

[fred]

This is really amazing. Mäuschen, the little sweetie of my two girls, had been very nervous and irritable for a couple of days - very atypical for her. So last night I took her up for a closer inspection and indeed she was in oestrus. She was so swollen that if I hadn't had an idea what to expect, I would have been quite concerned (thanks blossombrooks for making us aware of this). Tonight the swelling is much reduced and she is more her usual self. I will watch her more closely in three weeks time.

[deguconvert]

How cool that all your efforts and observations, Blossombrooks, have illuminated unusual behavior in Fred's Mauschen!! This is GREAT information to be collecting! Well done!

[blossombrooks]

Aww I'm so pleased it's helping! thanks Fred and DC. Fred how old is mauschen? I'm curious now to see what age the noticeable oestrus kicks in. I know what age they could theoretically conceive but I think the oestrus displays don't happen until around 8 months which may be when they are mature enough to deal with a litter. I'll be interested in your observations in 3 weeks :-).

[blossombrooks]

Oh moletteuk I'm so sorry I just saw your reply! Thank you :-)
Ive called all vets in the surrounding area and I couldn't find anyone with experience :-(. I even tried the pets at home vet and the vetinary hospital but they still weren't comfortable. I think my usual vet would do it but I'm afraid of rescuing a boy and something happening to him while he's under, it's not like an op that *has* to be done so I'd feel awful. Some girls don't seem to really show their cycles but they will wheel run more so look out for that :-).

[fred]

Mäuschen is 7 1/2 months old. It's definitely the first time she has displayed this behaviour, I would have noticed even if it had been weaker. I'll report what happens in three weeks.

Another observation: I weigh my girls weekly and Mäuschen's weight was quite stable just below 200g. On Friday she had lost 10g, but by this morning it is almost back. I will try to follow this more closely over her next oestrus.

What made you think the display starts only around 8 months of age? It's a very interesting hypothesis. I would have assumed that it is driven by the photoperiod in the wild. Since this is no longer a factor with our captive degus, it may have become age and/or maturation dependent.

[moletteuk]

I see where you are coming from with the 'unnecessary' operation, perhaps it would seem more justifiable if you were to come across a lone boy who needed rescuing - worth keeping an eye out anyway I don't thing it's too difficult an operation for a boy, especially if you supplied the drug info from degutopia.

I'll keep an eye out for extra wheel running, but they run a lot anyway. The one feature that struck a chord with me for my goos is that occasionally their feet feel warm.

[blossombrooks]

@fred well Im theorising about the 8 month thing because that's how it started with daisy, I had no problems until that age roughly. Yeah I notice weight loss with daisy too, it takes a few days for the weight to go back on but it always does after a treat or two. Thats when they both usually get a piece of nut to boost them up. I weighed daisy last night @220g but after peak oestrus day it's more like 200g.
moletteuk yep I put an adoption request out for a neutered boy and I'm keeping a keen eye on the adoption section. Fingers crossed! :-) I can wait a while but I might have to do as you suggest with the Degutopia info, good thinking!

[Deleted]

I noticed that Jadzia's behavior changed rather radically today. She is VERY grumpy!
I can usually groom her quite often, but today she squeaks if I even get close, and pushes my hand away.
She also made an attempt to attack my hand (not bite, just a forward agressive motion) when I stopped her
from chewing on a bench she's not supposed to chew on. She's also not very eager to come out of the cage,
which is highly unusual for her.

I've also noticed that the water bottle has been drained more quickly than usual.
I think she might be in heat, so I've noted the date and we'll see how long this lasts and if it repeats itself next month

Oh, and on a sidenote: Jadzia is only six months old, is it too early to think she might be in heat?

[blossombrooks]

@stormsong ahh good observations! :-) it certainly sounds possible that she's in heat. Is she using the sandbath more than usual?
I'm only guessing about the age the oestrus displays start I'm afraid, 6 months could well be the right age for it but until I get a few more people's observations I can't really say 100%. With any luck in a day or two she'll be back to her lovely little self. :-)

[malteser60]

I'm also wondering, blossombrooks do you degus display more dominance behaviour when in heat? Reason I'm asking is that lately Nutmeg is so determined to show she's boss, and yesterday her and Cinammon almost came to blows, I've never seen it so bad between them. And it was always Nutmeg instigating it. I know since introducing the two pups Nutmeg has increased in her dominance behaviour. However yesterday was just exceptional. Cinammon looked miserable and hid in the nest box all the time. And Nutmeg would constantly go in there and try to hump Cinammon, but non-stop, until Cinammon snaps and turns on Nutmeg. Then they would pretty much come to blows (not the rolling spitting fur but very non-friendly boxing). Poppy, bless her, would then go and try to give love to both of them and she would manage to callm both of them down.

It's like Nutmeg is either in heat, or it's like she has some sort of confidence issue where she feels insecure in her 'alpha female' position.

[blossombrooks]

@malteaser oh dear, poor cinnamon! I have noticed more dominance behaviour but it's almost the wrong way around. It's Daisy who displays signs of oestrus but while this happens Pepper is the one who humps more! They 'box' a lot too. I always assumed that daisy being in heat is a threat to Pepper (my dominant) which is why she asserts herself so much. Don't get me wrong Daisy humps too but Pep gets a little mean about it. Is cinnamon perhaps in heat?
Again it's only observations and theories at this stage but I really hope to see what happens when another cycle rolls around and what people begin to notice. Really hope nutmeg calms down soon! Poppy sounds a little sweetheart. 

[Deleted]

I think you're onto something here.. Today has been troublesome to say the least,
Elune and Jadzia has been in each other's faces all day, boxing and squealing :/
They've hardly been silent all day!

A few days ago, Elune seemed to become insecure of her dominant position. She's been trying to hump Jadzia repeatedly.
While Jadzia usually surrenders quickly, she bluntly refused today!

She doesn't seem to use the sandbath more than usual, but her
"usual" is already spending a lot of time in the bath

We did some redecorating in the cage again, moving one set of wheel/food bowl/water bottle down one level,
and things became a lot more quiet after that. I hope things will return to normal in a few days!

[fred]

Oct 20, 2011 19:27:53 GMT blossombrooks said:

I'm only guessing about the age the oestrus displays start I'm afraid, 6 months could well be the right age for it but until I get a few more people's observations I can't really say 100%.

I am wondering whether oestrus display is something that begins suddenly at a certain age or increases slowly in intensity over several months until we suddenly take notice (in those degus where it is more extreme)?

[blossombrooks]

I think the slow building idea is probably right Fred. When I first had problems with daisy she was nothing like as bad as she gets now. I noticed fairly early on but I was (still am ;D) a bit overprotective/paranoid when it comes to my goos. I would say she's slightly better of late but she is an adult now not a 'teenager' as she seemed before so im always hopeful it'll settle with time.

As a sidenote it's day 17 and daisy is beginning to swell, her activity levels are relatively normal but I expect them to increase until Saturday (day 21).

[deguconvert]

The poor girl! Just makes me ache to hear of her troubles. Do degus have menopause?

[blossombrooks]

I have no idea DC, I hope so! The thought of years of this for her is awful. I'm still on the lookout for a neutered boy but I appreciate they don't come along often.
I think daisy is going to be early this month, a shorter cycle. I just let them both out for a run and she's started wheel running instead of her usual room explore. She was sandbathing a lot more too. It's looking like day 18 is going to be peak day. It's always a relief for me when it's over for another few weeks, must be for daisy goo too! It looks exhausting.

[Deleted]

It looks like Jadzia is out of heat, she has returned to her normal sweet self again (thank goodness!).
That should mean she was in heat for about four days, does that sound reasonable?

If she's on a regular 21-day cycle, should her next one be 21 days from the day her period started
or from the day it ended? I'd like to mark that date and see if her behavior changes again

[blossombrooks]

Aw I'm so glad she's better stormsong! :-)
Yes 4 days is about right and if you count 21 days from the peak day it should give you an indication of when it will happen again (roughly, daisy is on a shorter cycle this month by a few days). If the peak day wasn't clear start counting from when it started not ended. :-)