|
|
Post by samovilafox on Jul 7, 2010 23:00:12 GMT
Hello again! As suggested by a board member on my first thread deguworld.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=6239 I've made a ruff draft of a care sheet for people interested in degus in our shop. I'd be extremely appreciative if some of you would look it over and tell me what you think. Feel free to comment on anything I left out, or messed up. This will be a very basic care sheet, (I'll also attach a list of woods/plants that are toxic and those that are safe with the sheet.) but I do want it to entice good potential owners, and discourage bad potential owners. Thanks again! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Degu Care Sheet Degu (Octodon Degu) is a small member of the rodent family native to Chile. Degus are not the easiest pets too keep and require lots of attention, space, and specific care. They have very specific dietary needs and need proper housing to be happy. If you are interested in having Degus for a pet, read the information below to get started. Degus chew! Degus are aggressive chewers and need to have plenty of safe toys and other objects to work their teeth on. Cages held together with plastic are not a wise idea. While degus have a hard time getting a start on flat services, any knots or knobs in wood or other material can give them a starting place to chew right through! Well cared for degus can live up to 10 years. (The average is 6 to 8 years.) As stated above, Degus are prone to diabetes. They should not be given foods that have added sugars, glucose or sweeteners. While Degu food is becoming easier to find on the market, you should check the sugar levels of these foods before hand. Other foods that are approved for degus are: Guinea Pig pellets, Rat mix, Chinchilla pellets, and Hay. Treats such as peanuts, sunflower seeds and other nuts should be given sparingly only. Fresh water should always be available. Degus chew! Your water bottle should either be situated outside of a metal cage with the spout facing in. Or if you hang your water bottle inside the cage, cover it with a wire mesh. Degus, like Chinchillas and a few other small animals, like to bathe in dust or sand. Special Chinchilla dust or sand bath mix is available at your local pet shop and is much preferred over regular sands. A bathing bowl or house should be offered with the sand replaced every day or at least every other day. Bathing keeps your degu clean, healthy, happy and is very fun to watch! Degus love to be with other degus! At the very least you should keep two of the same sex. With out other degus, your pet can become lonely and depressed. Adult degus usually reach about 6 inches in length. You will want a suitable sized cage to house them. www.degutopia.co.uk has an excellent resource for sizing how many degu can live in a specific sized cage. (Measurements in metric.) Degus are highly active and love to play. Make sure your cage is fully stocked with safe toys, tunnels, houses and other fun things to keep your pets busy. Degus love to burrow and climb. So make sure you can accommodate both activities. A wheel is a must! While plastic wheels are sometimes safer, they can be easily chewed. You may need to experiment with different wheels before you find out what works best for your degus. Degus chew! Degus are talkative! While most people do not find them overly loud, they do like to carry on a conversation! Bedding for your degu is important! You will probably want to avoid most wood shavings, especially cedar as it can be toxic to small animals. Most wood shavings are not great for controlling odor any way. (We use and recommend Carefresh.) Your degu may or may not train to be very holdable. Some are more willing than others to interact with humans. Some require more work to become social. Don’t expect a degu to take to you right off the bat! Degus chew! A lot! This is a very basic care sheet. Degus are complex little creatures. Finding a Veterinarian in your area that specializes in exotic pets is highly recommended. For more information, you can visit: www.myhomezone.co.uk/degus/www.degutopia.co.uk/www.oldvan.com/degupower/www.cahs-pets.org/ |
|
|
|
Post by smux on Jul 7, 2010 23:58:33 GMT
Minor points...
Degus aren't (or are believed not to be) of the rodent family. It's a thorny issue, some say they are, some say they're a separate species, although to keep it simple a simple rewording might be good (can't think what to put exactly) or just leave it as-is for now...I don't think being specific is good for a care sheet, it'll bog the potential owner with information they don't need. Perhaps a footnote is required?
The oldest known degu lived 16 years, not 10...average sounds about right though.
Wheels: Degus need LARGE wheels, this needs to be pointed out. My rule of thumb is if the wheel is taller (and thus wider) than the degu at full outstretched length then the degu will be happy in it. Wheels that are too small are bad for their backs. Aim for a 10-12" (yes, one foot) wheel if possible, it'll dwarf them but it'll make them happy. While these are easy to find, they can be expensive, but the cheap alternative is to make their own. Degutopia has a guide using a lazy susan (a type of ball-bearing wheel used under cake tables as well as other types of rotating table) and a metal cake tin and rivets to hold the lazy susan to the tin...should cost no more than $4 to make if they have the riveter.
There should also be more than one wheel, money permitting...many degus have been known to fight over who gets to run in the wheel...and silent wheels are a must, but if you get one that isn't silent then just use a bit of sunflower (or other cooking) oil on the spindle and you'll soon find it shuts up :-)
Degu length: 6"? Outstretched, an adult degu will reach up to 8-10" not including tail, I believe, so 6" is probably a low estimate...someone else will correct me, of course :-)
Wood shavings: Not the only option, as you pointed out...but if they use wood shavings and/or hay they should be dust-extracted to protect their lungs.
Guinea pig pellets: I'm not sure about those...I think pellets are bad but mix is good (someone else here will correct me if I am wrong...I am always getting these two mixed up), as pellets for guinea pigs are bound with molasses (made of sugar, so bad for degus). Degu mix or nuggets (pellets) are best, with guinea pig mix to be used in emergencies only (for instance, if they can't get degu specific food, although many online stores sell it). Personally if I have to use emergency food I take a good look at the ingredients and steer clear of anything that has fruits or fruit derivatives, molasses, sugar beet, chicken bone feed (yes, some guinea pig mix has it) or anything that stands out to me as bad (like peanuts, sunflower seeds, any other kinds of seed I don't know)
Hay: It should be mentioned that there's different kinds of hay they can have...alfalfa (sparingly, people usually buy these as compressed blocks) and timothy (ready supply) are probably the two most popular, but there are many others like oxbow and such. Timothy hay should be provided in a manger or a hanging basket and should be refilled whenever it is almost empty, as degus need CONSTANT access to timothy (or other...except bedding) hay as it makes up most of their diet. More than one supply would be a good idea, I have a small manger in my cage and it empties quickly, so I am going to need to sort out some better supplies for them :-)
Advice: You should add a note here to say that not all pet shops will give good advice about degu care as they are considered by many to be an exotic animal (and many shops haven't even heard of degus) so it is important that they find themselves a reliable source for information, and forums such as degutopia are just such a place to go to confirm the advice given is sound. They should also know that NO answer is too stupid to ask, we'd rather they asked than risk doing something wrong with their degu.
Degus are also very clever, they have been known to work out the latches on their cages and escape, for instance (my two new boys "escaped" today, my flatmate let them but only because he caught them at it and didn't let on that he saw...we've known their cage was a bit insecure for a while but haven't bothered to adapt it since they seem happy in their cage and haven't tried before). Also once they're more friendly with their owner they WILL do their utmost to escape whenever the cage is open, so owners need to be vigilant to what their little buggers are doing :-)
Degus chew too...a lot! :-)
They'll chew anything, including furniture if let out of their cage. They also chew the bars of their cage when they're bored (although not the only reason, sometimes), so if that's happening they might be in need of some enrichment.
Enrichment: Buy more than you can fit into their cage, and don't put it all in. After a few weeks, if you see something's not being played with much, replace it with a new toy...this diversity keeps their interest up and aids their happiness. Also, don't fill the cage up to the brim with new toys...too much choice is bad for them, let them have a few and introduce new stuff every so often if required.
Odour: Degus do not smell. Degu cages do not smell. People have the misconception that they, being of the rodent family, are going to smell the room up like hamsters and rats might...just not true! If the degu's cage is cleaned out regularly (people suggest once a week...I leave mine UP to 2 weeks, it depends on if I have the supplies to clean them out with or not) then there'll never be a problem with odour.
No mention of a nesting box? They need somewhere to sleep, and degus tend to sleep socially so it needs to be big enough to handle all of them although they may not all use it...and it needs to obviously be made of safe materials.
Mesh flooring: Degus are prone to "bumblefoot" so if the cage you choose has a mesh floor it should be covered with something before you move your guys in. Safe woods are an option, as are ceramic tiles, although I currently use cardboard cut to the shape of the floor. I plan to make papier-mache flooring in future so it is easier to replace their floors when they need replacing, although ceramic tiles are best and they're easy to wipe down.
Degu sex: It should be pointed out that degus have regularly been sold mis-sexed so it is imperative that you re-check their gender near the 6-month mark to ensure all are of the same gender if you wish to ensure against the pitter-patter of tiny feet.
Behaviour: Their behaviour patterns cause much anxiety to new owners, from the dominance playfighting to the tantrums and all the weird stuff inbetween. It is important that the owner research about degu behaviour (youtube is good for this) before they own degus for themselves, so they know what is happening in the cage...many "my degu is fighting" threads here boil down to harmless playfighting that is dominance-based, and intervention in these "fights" is bad for the hierarchy (heirarchy's something else they need to know about) of the clan.
You mention chinchilla dust, perhaps you should also mention there that they do NOT like water and this is why we use dust.
Oh, and another pet store asked about a care sheet previously, perhaps you should look through the forum and contact them about what they made?
There are also a number of small books you can buy for degu care if you wish, although a simple care sheet and the internet together give much more information that a book ever can :-)
If you need any cute pics for illustration, feel free to ask...anything I've taken you're welcome to use as you wish, but others might need to be asked first...I recommend my profile pic (suitably cropped) as a lot of people have commented on its cuteness both here and offline, and it is also a high-quality (good resolution) pic :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by samovilafox on Jul 8, 2010 0:40:40 GMT
Degus aren't (or are believed not to be) of the rodent family. Most interesting! Typically I see a cute fuzzy little animal and assume it's a rodent. ;D Not always true tho, rabbits aren't and I believe sugar gliders are marsupials. Most of the info was from various sources online. So yes, feel free to differ. As far as food goes, that may be part of a language difference? When I say pellet I mean just pellets. Our mixes are the ones with dried seeds and fruit and other manor of junk food. (Which is why I was kind of confused about the rat mix. But again, first draft.) I'll be doing a go thru on our foods tomorrow to see what kind of ingredients our pellets have in them. For rabbits, G.Pigs and Chins I usually recommend Kaytee Timothy Hay diet. While we don't sell much Chin food, we do carry Sunseed. I checked the bag and it contains molasses. (The heck man?!) The alfalfa thing I should probably add. When I write stuff out like this, I have a bad habit of omitting things that I would normally tell a customer anyway. (ditto the wheel thing, ditto the sexing thing, ditto bedding thing, ditto the toy thing.) The only thing I've ever recommended alfalfa for is baby rabbits. Nesting box! Thank you! I knew I was forgetting something!  I'm never sure how much to add to these kinds of things. In any store that sells pets, (good or bad) you will always get people who want to buy a pet on impulse. My first reaction is to give as many "cold hard" facts to these people as possible to dissuade impulse purchases. At the same time, there are people who are genuinely interested in <insert animal here> as pets and I want to give them useful information as well. It gets hard to balance the two sometimes.  Couple that with the fact I've been repeating since I started in retail: Americans hate to read! Whether it's a 400 page novel or a 2 line sign, we apparently hate reading. Good news is, the people who won't make it thru the care sheet, won't be back to buy a degu.  |
|
|
|
Post by smux on Jul 8, 2010 1:06:16 GMT
A good degu owner will instinctively check the ingredients before buying anything for their degu anyway, and know what is bad for them, so just letting them know molasses and anything fatty/sugary is a no-no and chicken bone meal is borderline no-no because degus are herbivores and it obviously contains chicken :-)
Pellet/nugget is pretty much the same thing, just I think pellets are more likely to be molasses-bound while nuggets aren't...although obviously this isn't a rule, just what I've noticed, and not all pellets have molasses in. And yeah, what you meant is what I meant...mixes are mixes of different ingredients. You can get special degu mixes which are a mix of degu-safe ingredients. Nuggets are those same ingredients (usually with timothy hay mixed in) in pellet form, a balanced diet in the one nugget so if your degu is picky then this stops them missing out on important nutrients. I've mentioned elsewhere that I feed mine a mix of nuggets and mix...that way they have a balanced diet but also something to pick at and choose what they want if they prefer (just they HAVE to have some nuggets too if they want to survive, as there's not enough mix to keep them going)
Alfalfa in block form is good because you can put a small part of a block in and it'll last a while unless they really like their alfalfa...and it's more a treat than a proper foodstuff, although not a treat in the same way as peanuts and seeds as it's good for them too.
My rule regarding the treats that are fatty (and also stuff like alfalfa and other hays, and of course food) is that GROWING degus (those under 58 weeks) are probably better off getting them a little more than adult degus, for the obvious reason that they're still growing and they need the extra nourishment...all other treats in the same moderation as adults though. This isn't proven fact, it's just my personal opinion, and it might result in overweight degus if people go too far so it's probably something to ignore unless you are sure you're not doing too much.
If you want to go the whole hog with degu sales, make some "degu-safe" stickers and put it on the foods and other stuff that is safe for them.
A point to note also about fruit in food mixes. Dried fruit is MORE dangerous than fresh because the sugar inside tends to be more abundant (higher percentage) than in fresh fruit.
Oh, another thing you didn't mention...fresh vegetables...as part of a varied diet, degus do well with regular fresh vegetables as part of their diet, but care should be taken to not overfeed as this can cause bloating.
Degus are apparently related to rabbits, if you didn't know, much like guinea pigs are...tenuous link, but it's part of the whole "not a rodent" thing...you wouldn't call a guinea pig a rodent, would you :-)
Happy to help where I can...but remember to try to keep it simple and not bog them down too much with information. Perhaps a basic care sheet so they can see what they are getting into, and a more detailed sheet for those who actually decide to make a purchase (and maybe give both out so they can read the basic and have further reading if they wish to know more :-))
Edit: Forgot to add, degus are diurnal...this means that their sleeping patterns will be dictated by outside influences so if you stick to a regiment of darkening the room they're in at a certain time each night they'll go to sleep at the same time every night. They are normally active in the day and sleep at night (most active in the late afternoon when it's cooler) but if their owner is a nightowl then they will adjust and be awake with their owner.
Also cage location is very important...no direct sunlight (partial is fine, but not whole cage, so not by unshaded windows) and no draughts...and definitely not near any air conditioning unit outflow or central heating if either is used in the house. They do like to sunbathe so direct sunlight is good ONLY IF there is shade provided in the cage (cardboard or wooden walls on the outside of the cage would be good) so part of the cage is sunny while part is shady, and food/water and most toys should be kept in the shady part.
|
|
|
|
Post by samovilafox on Jul 8, 2010 1:32:56 GMT
Very good point about the growing degus. Makes a lot of sense since most baby animal foods contain more fat and calorie content than their adult versions. If we do decide on degus, much of this may depend on how old they are when we get them. Our old animal supplier always sent babies. With the new supplier, our last animal order contained 5 dwarf hamsters,(hard to age those guys unless they're super young.) And two adult fancy hamsters. So not sure how old degus would be when they get here. Dried fruit info is a good idea, I'll have to add that. Veggie info I was holding off on until I got more educated on it. I'd love to have a more exact number on the amount they can have. Another problem Americans have is overfeeding. We tend to equate food with affection when it comes to our animals. I'd hate to have incomplete information and have someone love their degu to death.  |
|
|
|
Post by smux on Jul 8, 2010 1:51:21 GMT
I'm not the person to ask about veggies, I tend to underfeed mine to make sure it's not to much...they have a bit of lettuce every so often and the odd cherry tomato (cut up so they can all have a piece). Golden rule is any veg that is high in water content (like cucumber or celery) is a definite no-no and any that has high sugar or salt content (tomato, for sugar) is to be given in strict moderation...others like spinach, lettuce, cabbage, fresh herbs (they LOVE fresh herbs, usually) should be given daily with a different mix each time where possible. Amounts, well, I would give the equivalent of half a lettuce leaf's worth of veg per degu. It doesn't have to be daily but they do like regularity and they'll wonder where the veg is if you miss a day.
Degus, in a perfect world, will get to you as pups freshly weaned (I think it's 8 weeks, but can't be sure) and they should not be going out into the shop to be sold as soon as they get to you. Unless your supplier is a breeder, they are going to need to be handled regularly by a loving staff member on a regular basis (probably for at least half of the day) to get them used to human contact and make them better pets for their eventual owner, and this handling will include talking to them and hand-feeding them some of the nice foods they like (the good bits from food mixes seem to work well for me, my Theresa loves the green flat pieces that I think are cabbage)...you know they're "handled" when they'll sit in your hand on their back paws and hold the food in their front paws to eat it, although obviously not all degus will become that trusting. It's a lot of work (especially if you have a large group of them) but that's how it is if you buy from the wrong kind of suppliers...and pre-handled is IMPORTANT for their future temperament, the friendlier degus are all pre-handled :-P
Edit: Grrr, forgot another important addition to the care sheet...
Degus do NOT bite: Unlike most small animals, degus are not prone to biting their owners, the worst they do usually is a warning nip which may surprise their owner but it is supposed to and it rarely hurts and never breaks the skin. They also "groom" their owners, which is like a nip but much gentler. The only time they will bite properly is if they're threatened or severely agitated, or if they've been treated or brought up badly (going back to pre-handing again :-)). For this reason, degus make a very good pet for adults or mature children...and they should NOT be bought for any child under the age of 14 unless their parent is going to take on the full responsibility of making sure the degu is going to be cared for properly.
Oh, and going back to your original post...about having single degus, loneliness and depression isn't the only reason for having more than one...they're social animals, they need someone to talk to but also they need someone to groom with and they also need hierarchy. Degus seem to be very structured animals :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by samovilafox on Jul 8, 2010 3:49:47 GMT
I'm very used to getting our animals as babies. That's why the two adult hamsters threw me so much. On the other hand, the dwarfs where very friendly from the get go. With hamsters, gerbils etc we usually expect that they came from a broker who gets them from a mass breeder, and we'll be responsible for taming them. Kind of the nature of the beast. But as degus are still uncommon in the US, I'm not sure how these little guys get to us. Although our new supplier is based in the south, so that maybe why the hamsters are so friendly. Thanks for all the help. I'm tweaking the sheet as we speak! |
|
|
|
Post by emz on Jul 8, 2010 9:34:53 GMT
An adolescent degu can bite or nip especially. An adult degu doesn't tend to nibble/bite their owners though. My only bite was at 7 weeks old when I was putting food in and one pinched my finger and ran off. However even if it didn't break the skin, it did hurt! Five minutes later my finger was throbbing. A degu is so docile usually though with good care though, I can poke my fellas gently in the belly and they won't mind (they receive this poke in the belly when they're out and trying to chew the radiator in that rooms pipe and that one part of it is rubber lol.) I had a quick skim, and I don't see a mention of temperature. A degu should ideally be between 18-23 Celsius. The max is around 28, anything above is a dangerously high temperature and could cause a stroke. This is due to degus not being able to self regulate their body temperature, they don't sweat. I think it is an important piece of info to add even if you tell them as they may forget. As for weaning age, it can be between 6-8 weeks. Anything before 6 weeks is too young. You may want to keep them a while and ensure they're hand tamed a little so it is easier for the new owners as the degus will be use to human hands. This is up to you. I highly, highly, disagree with carefresh as a bedding for any animal. It is a rip off, and I feel any pet shop recommending it is surely just after cash (not meaning to offend.) Dust extracted pine wood shavings are more than suitable like smux covered and mine hardly smell at all with this as their substrate. It is much cheaper for the owner and it does the same job. Especially when degus will kick most of either bedding out of a metal cage, along with a ton of their poo the carefresh is just flushing their money away. If your cage starts to smell badly you are not cleaning it enough or you need a cage with a thicker metal base, as degus (mine anyway) although they pee everywhere they still have a special corner that they pee more in and this corner gets pretty wet. Scented shavings are a no though, they are always bad for the animal and are only there to market to owners who are ignorant to the respiratory damage it can cause. As for food. Although muesli looking food is pretty (I use to use it) they will almost always find a piece they dislike and I am sure you know all about selective feeding working at a pet store. I now use guinea pig nuggets, 10 grams a day, and they are happy with it the next day the bowl is usually empty. Sorry if any of this is repeated, like I said I had to skim read. I have a low attention span in the mornings.  |
|
|
|
Post by samovilafox on Jul 8, 2010 12:26:03 GMT
Thanks I'll add temperature on there! Just out of curiosity, why do you dislike Carefresh? The store use stuff is a bit dusty. Altho for some strange reason it has never seemed to bother any of our animals. Even the G.Pigs who are sneezing fools. We do also carry carefresh ultra which is a more refined version. Here's a question on bedding for you tho. What about hemp bedding? We also carry that. |
|
|
|
Post by DegutasticJen on Jul 8, 2010 12:48:03 GMT
I am also sorry if I have repeated anything that has already been sent but at work at the moment just having a lil nosey.
I use woodshavings and personaly I have never had a problem. My goos love them and I think it just looks alot better than Carefresh. I bought one bag before and I just didnt get on with it whatsoever. Im sure for some owners its good. But I personaly dont like it.
|
|
|
|
Post by emz on Jul 8, 2010 13:06:28 GMT
I mostly dislike it because it does the same job for a much higher price and the bags don't usually last long. Like Jen said too, the shavings look nicer and are more natural. Wood shavings do the same job and are just as suitable. I have heard that people with bar cages instead of mesh find the Carefresh doesn't kick out through the bars but that's the only extra positive I can think of.
There is, at least over here, finnacard and that is also a nice bedding to use and the bales I have heard last ages. I have not heard of hemp bedding before but when I searched I got:
|
|
|
|
Post by smux on Jul 8, 2010 15:50:47 GMT
My girls have some sort of hemp bedding in their hammock (which is where they sleep) and they seem to enjoy it...it's a lot warmer than other bedding materials too, I think...holds in the heat better. If I were to guess, it'd be coconut hair, but I can't be 100% sure and I haven't had a response about it from the previous owners.
|
|
|
|
Post by samovilafox on Jul 8, 2010 22:45:10 GMT
I mostly dislike it because it does the same job for a much higher price and the bags don't usually last long. Understandable. I guess I never think about it since the stuff we get at work is practically free. I always used it for my gerbils and hamsters at home. The gerbils seemed to really enjoy it since it hold tunnels pretty well. I'm pretty sure the hamsters couldn't have cared one way or the other. lol Price wise I always went on their web site for coupons for my home use stuff. That plus my employee discount and the price wasn't too bad. But if you don't get the luxury of 20% off, I can see that getting a little pricey. |
|
Couple that with the fact I've been repeating since I started in retail: Americans hate to read! Whether it's a 400 page novel or a 2 line sign, we apparently hate reading. Good news is, the people who won't make it thru the care sheet, won't be back to buy a degu. 
