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Post by shoogul on Dec 3, 2009 1:22:52 GMT
My two male Degus Chilli and Diago (not original names, I know)were a surprise gift I got five days ago. I hadn't even heard of a degu before that, so I have been completely thrown in at the deep end and really need some advice. I have been trying to find out as much as I can about what they need, foodwise and such but even the vet said she couldn't answer my questions as she hadn't heard of them before, and I have read conflicting things on different websites.
Chilli had to be taken to the vets as his nail had been ripped out, now he needs to take antibiotics but I am having difficulty in giving them to him. Some websites have said they can get certain fruits as treats occasionally and I thought I could give this to him with his medicine on it, but other websites say they cannot be given any fruit at all?
The pet shop said they were babies, but they arent very small, so is it too late for me to ever be able to handle them? They will take treats from my hands but arent keen on me touching them. Diago seems to be getting braver and I am begginning to be scared to put my hands near them as he seems very intent on having a nibble.
Also Diago is alot bigger than Chilli and seems more dominant. Could he be taking more of the food? I noticed today him standing over the food bowl and kind of warning Chilli off when he came near.
I wanted also for them to be able to get out of their cage so bought a pen for small animals but in all of two minutes they had managed to climb up the sides.
I'd appreciate all the advice I can get. I don't have much money and have already spent quite a bit having to buy extras and pay for vets and pens that don't work, so I can't afford a bigger cage right now but I am worried about them being kept occupied and happy. I also find them quite a handfull, they seem to be really smart. It only took a day for them to recognise the noise of their lid opening and now they shoot right up the sides, but as I am now beggining to become nervous around them (especially Diago) It makes it difficult for me to try and interact with them.
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 3, 2009 4:54:13 GMT
OK!! You have certainly been given a bundle to deal with in your gift. Lets see . . . what to help you with.
Is the cage you have them in a hamster cage? Does the whole top lift when you are opening it to see them? If it is . . . then you have been most unfortunate in the cage given you. It will very soon be too small, and because of how smart and fast degus are, they will make it very hard on you to deal with the needs of the day, such as fresh water, food and hay, as well as hand training.
For food . . . Gerty Guinea Pig food is good, as is the Pets @ Home degu food. Degus need a daily supply of Timothy hay to maintain a healthy digestive tract and movement. Tap water is generally safe for them to drink . . . unless you don't trust what you have.
Degus may have treats, but fruit is best to stay strictly away from. Treats such as; -one peanut in shell each month (also can give walnut, hazelnut, almonds in same amount) -up to six sunny seeds a day/per degu -sugar free organic tomato paste in a tube -fresh greens such as parsely, basil, dill, cilantro . . . but given in moderation as it can cause runny stools -pumpkin seeds, millet seed, in moderation -dried peas -branches from apple, crab-apple, hazelnut, and plum trees are safe
Large cardboard tubing, like what carpeting is rolled around, are easy to get from carpet sellers, and when cut make great toys for degus. They might like a golf ball or two. A large wheel, 12 - 16 inches in diameter helps to burn off a lot of energy. Find a piece of flat cardboard large enough to put over top of your play pen, then weight it down at the corners with something to prevent them from getting out. Although . . . one way to get nicely aquainted with your degus is to climb in with them and let them climb all over you. Have a few sunny seeds in your pocket to give them when they are on you to reward them and give them more reason to check you out. It will work wonders for all of you in building your confidence with each other. I have to run, but I will post more tomorrow about hand training. One thing for now, when you give a treat through the bars . . . gently rub the sides of the degu that is eating. It will get him/them used to your touch.
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n64play
Burrowing Degu
3 goos - Ford, Arthur and Zaphod. I can tell them apart now!
Posts: 128
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Post by n64play on Dec 3, 2009 12:30:02 GMT
Hey, welcome to the site! I'll see what I can advise as I'm a fairly new owner myself (about 8 months): Don't worry about the touching thing. My boys don't like being touched, but they'll sit in my hand and take treats from me, or just randomly climb up my arm to my shoulders and run off again. Thing about degus is they never sit still, everything is something to be explored! Also, they can be a little destructive. Not in an agressive way, but they will literally chew EVERYTHING, even if it's just to see what the thing is! My boys for some reason love buttons on the tv remote so I've had to move them out of the way when they're out and about, had to get a new remote too! Read the articles on the site about training, helped me immensily! When I want to get my boys back in the cage now, I make a sort of squeeking noise and have a few treats in my hand, and they dive in to get them! That took a fair bit of time though, so don't be put off if they're not that friendly even after a month or two. Took nearly 5 months before any of them would sit in my hand, and Ford still won't. Definatley get a wheel, can't recommend that enough. It keeps them entertained and burns off a lot of energy! Aside from that it's a bit of trail and error. For instance my boys don't like coloured wood, only brown wood. And leather and rubber for some reason! Also they LOVE sunflower seeds as treats, but are fussy about their veg. The apple wood is a good idea, and they love dried dandilion leaves and roots too. Just like people though they have different likes and dislikes depending on their personality!
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Post by emz on Dec 3, 2009 13:15:51 GMT
If they were babies, they'd be about 6 weeks old (weaning age.) At this size they're slightly bigger than a youngish Gerbil and can still get through the cardboard part of a toilet roll. At under 8 weeks old degus shouldn't feel the need to be dominant also so it does seem the pet shop has lied about their age. If they're acting fairly dominant they may be around the 6 months mark. As deguconvert said: avoid fruit! Degus cannot metabolise sugar very well and are very prone to diabetes (which not many of them cope with for very long) and although a tiny bit can be safe most of us here feel safer to avoid it. When buying toys, remember to consider safe woods! A lot of woods are toxic to a degu. A good site for learning which woods should be avoided is at Degutopia: www.degutopia.co.uk/As for your cage. Can we get measurements? Or even a photo? A degu cage needs to be completely metal and a fairly decent size in order to give them enough room to burn off their energy (including a wheel like has been already covered.) John Hopewell does lovely degu cages but they are all at least ~80 pounds for the smaller ones. You may be able to find a cheaper larger ferret cage on ebay but do remember it must all be metal! They can chew out of plastic base cages and escape. If you find one degu is "hogging" the food bowl you can either: - Try and teach him that you are the "top goo" and not him. If he makes a moaning noise and jumps on the bowl either blow him (degus do not like that) or gently push him off (if you're sure they won't bite like mine), or spray a bit of water on them (not too much but out of those little water bottles that spray it as a fine mist is ok.) - Option 2 is to get a second food bowl. This perfectly worked for me and now they even both go to "their bowl" at feeding time and eat peacefully. Not a single degu cuss word out of the pair of them! Small animal pens will never work, an adult degu can jump ~3 feet maximum. You can either: - Degu proof the room (cardboard over the wires and etc. that sort of thing.) - Make a play pen using wood (cheap MDF is fine aslong as they don't eat it a lot.) If you have a pair of avid chewers then you can buy kiln dried softwood at B&Q which is an ideal safe wood. Also, do you have a sand bath? If not chinchilla sand from Pets at Home is not too expensive ~£3/4 a bag and think the bag is 2Kg. It lasts a decent amount of time. They will need a sand bath at least a few times a week for 20 minutes. Some people have them in the cage all the time (like myself) but then you need to clean it out as they will use it as a litter box sometimes. It keeps their fur clean but also just as importantly reduces stress! Finally, degus will never be like a guineapig where you can hold them and pet them on your lap (unless you're very lucky!) but the majority of degus do not like being held but will eventually climb on you at least once they're more use to you. Also if you find them nibbling your fingers don't get frightened. This is usually a way of showing affection and they are "grooming" you. If they nibble a bit too hard (like they can do when grooming a fellow degu) give out a short loud squeak. This is what they do to tell the other goo they're grooming a bit too hard. Most degus are docile though and will not bite. Just relax your hand, let them sniff it, and let them give it a nibble. If you're handing them food be careful of your fingers as they can accidentally bite. A degu bite can hurt quite a lot. When it comes to handling the degus to get them back into the cage. Do not chase them, or try and pick them up one handed around the stomach. Also never grab them by their tail! It, as a defence mechanism, will very easily come off (to get away from predators.) Picking them up one handed by the stomach is how a predator would grab them and it can frighten them. Scoop them up gently with 2 hands if possible. If you're struggling hold them out a cardboard tube and hold it near them so they can crawl into it. This works in getting most degus back inside or making you able to transport them with ease. Finally, degus can become quite expensive pets. They also live quite a long time so they are a long term commitment. Mostly the setup costs of the cage and toys. After that it isn't so bad but do not expect them to be cheap like lets say a hamster. You will need to find a creditable exotic vet. Never go with a vet who "hasn't even heard of them" for your degus sake as well as it being a waste of your money. For cheap bedding there is an online website which sells finacard which is degu safe and I have heard it lasts months and months! www.finacard-uk.com/ - it is also decently priced compared to what I call "the rip off bedding" (Carefresh.) I hope this helps you. You really have been thrown into the deep end of the pool! Degutopia really will be your "degu bible" - I only use that website for my info personally if I ever need to look something up.
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 3, 2009 15:44:43 GMT
You have been given some excellent advice by N64 and Emz!! They have given you the whole ball of twine! Read it over a few times, or come back to it . . . it will help you a lot. Also never be afraid to ask any questions here. Like N64 and Emz, we have a lot of very helpful members here, and we love to encourage one another.
As to hand training, it is fairly simple, but it requires a fair load of patience. So that is usually the first thing I tell new owners. Grab your patience and hold on to it hard. Degus can swing anywhere from extremely shy to overtly outgoing and friendly. Which ever way they are, you need to build a trust account with them, and that can take time. So . . . -Whenever you are near, talk to them. Make a point of going to the cage and saying hello. -Sit beside the cage and chat with them, offer a couple of little treats. Let them sniff your fingers . . . possibly a little nibble even . . . but as Emz said, a short loud squeak if it hurts works wonders in letting them know it hurt. -IF your cage has a door opening that you can rest your up-turned palm inside of, without running the risk that they will easily escape on you, then when you are sitting beside the cage, put your hand in. In your palm place a couple of sunny seeds, or even tiny pieces of broken walnut (these are what convinced our boys that I was safe . . . they were to greedy for the goods to not chance it! LOL) They will approach and run, then get bold enough to snatch and run, and eventually they may snatch and sit beside your hand. Then will come the day when they stay on your hand, and maybe venture out a bit. At that point you may be able to entice them up your arm a bit. -I like to tell people to very gently rub the sides of a degu while it is eating a treat. It helps them to associate your touch with really good things, and they will be much more tolerant of it. I learned this with the last of our three to get tame. There will be varying degrees of tolerance, but it is a helpful tool. -While you are in the training stage, don't worry too much about the amount of treat you are giving . . . so long as the pieces are quite small. It won't be a life time treating plan or habit, so it is OK for the short time. -And speaking about time . . . hand training so that they are used to you can take anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months. But that won't be the end of it. You will notice your degus continually showing smalls signs of growing trust and affection over the time that you own them. Sometimes you may feel you have reached the peak of what will grow, and a few months later they will surprise you with a new demonstration of affection. Just remember that it is a somewhat slow process for the deeper trusts to be gained, but it is well worth it. -Something that has proved to be very helpful for training is a fuzzy warm house robe. Degus love to crawl into little tubes and tunnels, and the sleeve of a house robe looks just like that. If you don't mind the idea of a degu or two running around inside of an old robe or hoodie (if you have one), then put it on over an old shirt and begin to entice them in. While in there they will get used to your smell and the feel of you, while you also get used to them. It can make a tremendous leap forward in your relationship with them. To this day, my boys ADORE my house robe. If I put it on and go to the cage, all three of them clamour to come out. Then they speedily dive inside and go hunting. I look like I've become infected with 'moles.' After a bit they will often pile up in the small of my back and have a snooze. They can be HOT little furries! And yes, my house robe is getting well and frequently washed. ;~)
Lastly, never give your degus anything dairy. They can't digest it.
Well!! I hope you didn't plan to read anything else today after all these long messages. I am sure they will be a help to you though. Be sure to ask any questions. We're here to help! I hope it goes very well for you.
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n64play
Burrowing Degu
3 goos - Ford, Arthur and Zaphod. I can tell them apart now!
Posts: 128
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Post by n64play on Dec 3, 2009 19:14:32 GMT
I keep meaning to try the robe thing! I know what you mean about tunnels, my boys love them, not so keen on the cardboard. I've tried the tickling their bellies thing, they don't like it the prefer to just sniffing my fingers and checking my hand for treats before running off!
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Post by shoogul on Dec 4, 2009 1:14:38 GMT
Thanks for all the advice, It's great to have somewhere like this to ask questions, considering my vet was of no help.
I already thought their cage was too small, it's only about 2ft long and 1.4 width and depth. It has a shelf which I put cardboard on so they don't walk on the wire, and to get into it you have to open the whole lid. After watching them for a couple of days I figured it wasn't really designed for them. Thing is I don't have money to buy a new one so it might take a couple of months of saving.
They have a wheel, which they both use and love but I take it out when I'm not home as I'm not sure it's safe. It's a metal wire/spindle thing (not sure of the correct term) but if they aren't supposed to be walking on the wire mesh is this type of wheel safe? Also the pet shop guy says they can damage their tails on wheels?
There is alot for me to sort out, which I will, A bigger cage and such, but I am really stressing about how to give Chilli his antibiotics. The vet says if his finger/digit gets infected it may have to be amputated. I was upset by this and asked her if it was dangerous to which she said no, in a 'dont be silly' kind of way. But I have read that it is dangerous for small animals to be put under and sometimes they can die because of it. At the moment I have to put the antibiotics in the water which both of them drink but because it has to be diluted in a certain amount of water he isnt even getting a quarter that he needs. He won't take it on his treats either.
I desperately don't want to lose him. He's so sweet, I let him nibble my finger today, he was really gentle, just inquisitive. I seperated their food so that Diago couldn't hog it, but my flatmate saw him push Chilli away from the water today. I'm really worried about this behaviour, how do you stop this? Or is it normal?
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Post by deguconvert on Dec 4, 2009 1:26:58 GMT
Sometimes you need to get two water bottles. ;/ Just like two food dishes. As to the foot . . . forget the antibiotics. Make up a mild solution of salt water and bathe his foot with it twice daily. He'll be better in a flash!
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Post by emz on Dec 4, 2009 1:37:40 GMT
If the water is near the food then try moving it farther away. I found that sometimes if one tried to drink near the others bowl it would set the other degu off. You may end up needing 2 water bottles like I have seen other people have to do to stop conflict. They are possessive of the important resources sometimes like food and water depending on the nature of the degu. I am not sure how to help you with Chilli taking his antibiotics. A few other people here have had degus needing to take medicine before so hopefully they'll be able to help you more on that. Regarding a wire mesh wheel they can cause leg injury and tail injury. You're right in thinking they can be dangerous. If you mean a wheel like this anyway: Try and get a silent spinner or a wodent wheel. The second can be bought from Pets at Home for around £12.
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n64play
Burrowing Degu
3 goos - Ford, Arthur and Zaphod. I can tell them apart now!
Posts: 128
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Post by n64play on Dec 5, 2009 15:45:11 GMT
Two water bottles is a good idea, that's what I did. They do tend to just use one though, fussy goos. A good place for a wheel and a cage is John Hopewells site (google it). I got his smallest wheel, which is big enough for two goos to run on, and pretty funny if all three try it and one gets flung off! Looking at it though, if you're good with DIY you might be able to make one out of a plain cake tin until you can afford to buy one?
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grub
Warbling Degu
Posts: 39
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Post by grub on Dec 14, 2009 11:56:02 GMT
wow wat some great tips and advice for all us new goo owners thanx peeps really helpful
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Post by lgeorge on Dec 29, 2009 19:28:32 GMT
Just wanted to say that I am also a new Degu owner and I have been reading this thread and have found it very helpful. My boys are almost 4 years old (we have adopted them). Unfortunately, they have not had much love or handling up to this point. I am going to follow the handling advice given and hopefully in time they will come around. Cheers guys
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Post by victoriannoire on Jan 13, 2010 5:03:32 GMT
That is all immensely helpful! we have had our degu "bits" since sespt. and she has come such a long way...though she is a terrible chewer of remotes and our leather pillows and i am glad our degu is not the only one with this gene! ;D
but thanks for all the good advice!
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Post by cheesymarmite on Mar 10, 2010 10:59:57 GMT
I too am a new Degu owner, I got Marmite and Cheese two days ago and they have just started to get used to daily noises and things going on around them. The cutest thing is when they sit on top of their nest box together and look out as though they're watching the TV I have to say thanks to all the people who have given advice on this page. Most of the the questions I've had have been answered. I have to say, I am worried slightly that I might have been sold a boy and and a girl instead of the two girls I thought I had. Marmite seems a lot more boisterous than Cheese and sometimes chases her round the cage, intent on sitting on her and chewing/cleaning her fur. Of course it might just be because Marmite is being nice, but cheese doesn't do it back and often doesn't want to know and holds her tail up to Marmite. I have tried to see their reproductive parts to tell if they are the same and Marmite looks worryingly bigger than Cheese. But it is not easy to tell as they aren't used to being handled yet. Any tips on this? Could it just be a sign of dominance? I do plan to take her to the vet so they can give them a check over. Thanks
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 10, 2010 15:40:21 GMT
Just so you know, male and female degus have what looks like a willie. The best way to know their gender relies on the distance between the anus and the willie (urinary cone). Male goos have enough distance that if you were to outline the genital area it would resemble the outline of an old fashioned key lock on a door. For the female however, they are very close and outlined would more resemble the numeral eight (8). Mounting and humping is normal to degus no matter what their gender. They all mount and they all hump. It is only partly dominance, but it does seem to be as much a part of their social relationships as does grooming. Don't worry about it, unless you see them starting to fight very aggressively, which will often look like a fur ball of screaming biting degu rolling maddly around the cage. Very different from the relatively friendly boxing.
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Post by cheesymarmite on Mar 11, 2010 8:20:53 GMT
Thank you I had a look at both of them when they were up against the sides of their cage and Marmite definitely has a bigger gap than Cheese I am booking them into the vets for their free health check, so I will get a second opinion in the hope that I am wrong lol. Otherwise I could have mare Degus than planned!
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Post by emz on Mar 11, 2010 9:16:13 GMT
Are you able to take a picture of them both somehow for us to look at? Sounds a bit weird but a lot of vets still do not really know "what a degu is" from what a lot of people have experienced. Unless you're sure your vet has reputable degu experience it might be better doing it yourself or showing a picture here so we can help.
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Post by cheesymarmite on Mar 11, 2010 17:04:41 GMT
Thanks I will see what I can do, they are getting less nervous every day now, so hopefully I'll be able to get them to hang around long enough at the bars for me to get a picture. I have booked them in for their health check at the vets next week, apparently he knows about degus, so hopefully he can help too. I will try and get some photos, we are making progress. They were climbing all over me in the empty bath tub today lol
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Post by cheesymarmite on Mar 18, 2010 12:08:56 GMT
Hey, good news! they are both the same sex. However instead of being girls, they are boys. I'm so glad I know now, thank you so much for your help, it's much appreciated
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Post by emz on Mar 18, 2010 13:30:17 GMT
Glad to hear they're the same sex at least. ;D
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