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Post by Philip on Aug 11, 2009 17:57:06 GMT
I've tried training according to degutopia today, it is soooo hard! Poppadom has kinda learnt that when he comes close to my hand and puts his paws on it then he gets a treat, that's fine! But Pumpernickel, who was fairly good, now knows that the treat is outside the cage, and so when i put my hand inside, pumpernickel goes to the door of the cage, to try and get out!!!!!! arghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's so annoying! I'm guessing that this is fairly normal for training, and that it is difficult, but does anyone have any tips for training? Philip PS i'm using small pieces of bitesize shredded wheat for treats
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 11, 2009 19:08:46 GMT
That's a great treat to use, Philip. Sunflower seeds and small bits of walnut are also very good. Do you have your cage raised off the floor? It it is up on a raised surface, with no ledges near by, it will prevent either of them from leaping out of the cage and down onto the floor. That will make it much easier for you to control them and work with them. Since the main object of hand training is to get them used to you and to build a deep trust in you, then I wouldn't worry too much about how much they come to you, just that they come. Building trust is a work of time and effort, so don't feel let down if it seems to ebb and flow, do good and then decline. You will be making progress with them that will more and more become apparent.
It took me a good six weeks with our first pair to be sure that we were doing good. Then one died unexpectedly and we rushed out to find two more males to be companions to our remaining one. With six weeks experience behind me by then, I did much better and I would say that in half the time we had made excellent progress . . . with ONE of them. LOL! The other was so scared and ready to bite (oooooouch! I bled a lot with him) that it took me a full 5 months to build a good relationship with him. NOW he lives up to the name we gave him as soon as he was bought . . . Snuggabug. I wondered to myself for a long time if JAWS wouldn't have been more suitable. I decided to be more patient and stubborn than he was scared and it was worth it in the end.
So, be patient, follow the guidelines and whatever advice and you will do great!!
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Post by Philip on Aug 11, 2009 19:19:00 GMT
thankyou very much, that's really useful, they know me fairly well already, i talk to them alot, and look at them alot, i can stroke them a bit when they're eating, and they do come and investigate my hand, nearly always, although less so, now that they've got used to it. the cage is on a chest of draws, if they do, kinda get out the cage, won't they jump onto the floor from that high up then? Are they scared of jumping from high places, because mine jump from the middle ledge in the 2ft high cage!, although from the bottom of the cage, there's at least a 3ft drop thanks again! Philip
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Post by Philip on Aug 12, 2009 8:10:44 GMT
did a bit of training this morning, and it went quite alot better. Poppadom crawled onto my hand quite alot, and then, after he got the treat, he went off. Pumpernickel went to the entrance and nibbled on the bars but he eventuall came onto my hand, so i gave him a treat But then Poppadom, came and nicked Pumpernickel's treat! So i gave another treat to pumpernickel, should i have given pumps a treat? my mum says no. So it's going better but i'm also still finding difficulties, for instance, when i was giving them breakfast, poppadom, kept trying to climb out, and was outside the cage at one point, he was hanging onto the bars! What to do to make sure he doesn't do it!
But otherwise, everything is fine with the goos, I woke up at 7:40 because of their squeeks, but that was ok! A good time
Thanks Philip
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 12, 2009 16:39:13 GMT
Yeah, they will try to climb the bars, but that is due to intense curiousity and the desire to go higher. In the degu world, higher is always better!! LOL! As to giving pump a treat . . . I admit that when one of our boys nicks a treat from one of the others, I always replace it. Not sure if it is a bad or good idea, but I do it anyway. So . . . it's up to you and your Mum. The height of your chest of drawers should definitely deter your goos from jumping. They love to be high up, but not to leap from high unless frightened . . . greatly frightened. But then, when greatly frightened they will often freeze rather than jump or run. Don't worry about it, the height is an asset rather than a problem for you. Don't get anxious about the training either. It really is an exercise in patience that can get frustrating, but it will be so worth it. The more you get to know them, and they get to know you, the more you can do with them. Look up degus on youtube and you will see some very cool video on there where people have trained their goos to do tricks. Like jumping through a hoop! Anyway, you are doing well!! keep it up.
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Post by Philip on Aug 12, 2009 17:29:07 GMT
thanks, i think they kinda like my hand now, they'll walk onto it when i put it in, once poppadom stayed on my hand for a bit, nibbling his treat, i'm really enjoying having them, they're super cute! Philip
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Post by Philip on Aug 12, 2009 17:30:07 GMT
Oh, one more question, when should i stop rewarding for them coming onto my hand, or should i never? Thanks Philip
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 13, 2009 0:33:44 GMT
It's too soon at this point to stop . . . I would give it 2-3 weeks.
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Post by Philip on Aug 13, 2009 9:53:30 GMT
cool, that's what i thought, thanks. both of them have now stayed in my hand whilst eating there treat at least one time! and my dad stuck his hand in, and gave poppadom a treat when pops crawled onto his hand, and pops stayed there, even though my dad was moving his hand! So enjoying having them!
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 13, 2009 15:12:25 GMT
Sweet!
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Post by Philip on Aug 14, 2009 8:06:17 GMT
here are some pics of them on my hand, now if i put my hand in, they usually stay on it, eating their treat, and then when they've finished they start moving up my arm a bit, or turning around, and then i give them another treat, is that right? it's working! pumpernickel on my hand poppadom on my hand, while i'm moving it up and down! i'm really enjoying having them, and they're getting used to me reall quick!
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Post by jackdaniels on Aug 14, 2009 12:16:32 GMT
Great news. Is that pets at homes recommended nugguts in your food bowl . What else do you feed them?
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Post by Philip on Aug 14, 2009 13:11:26 GMT
yeah, i give them hay and p@h guinea pig nuggets, i think that they're not eating all of them because: a) i've probably been giving them too much shredded wheat and b) they're only babies really so, don't need a full 25g a day, each!
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 14, 2009 17:00:33 GMT
Yes, do give them a little more treat. Maybe just make them in smaller pieces. During training, you do need to treat them more than you will once you have them trained. But, degus are pretty smart, and if you stop treating them altogether, they stop doing the desired behavior. An almost example would be our three. Their favorite treat in all the world is sunflower seeds. They will do almost anything for sunflower seeds. So at the end of a run outside the cage, I sit on the floor, shake the jar we keep the seeds in, and they come running, I treat them and then put them away . . . they are all sitting on my shoulders so easy to put them back. One day I decided that I should really mix it up a bit and offer other things. So, pumpkin seeds, crispy veggy things from pet store, puffed wheat, and raw pasta started getting rotated through the treat menu as well. Well . . . before very long they wouldn't come to me like they used to, and then they just ignored me completely!! That was very frustrating, and I knew they had me cornered. We went back to only sunflowerseeds, and once they started to hear nothing but the magical rattle of seeds on glass, they started coming again. SNORT! Little brats! So . . . they trained me, really. LOL!! Anyway, they need to have their behavior rewarded, just with less than was first used.
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Post by Philip on Aug 15, 2009 8:22:14 GMT
they've ate all of their morning food yesterday and about half of their evening meal, so they've been eating around 37.5g between them everyday, which i'd say is fairly normal for lil' ones, would people agree with that? or am i speaking nonsense? Success! they were both sitting on my hand, and i moved my hand up and down, none of them moved!!!!!! Thanks deguconvert, i understand most of your message, i think, but i'm a bit confused! Yes, do give them a little more treat. Maybe just make them in smaller pieces. During training, you do need to treat them more than you will once you have them trained. But, degus are pretty smart, and if you stop treating them altogether, they stop doing the desired behavior. when you say this do you mean, i should treat them with smaller pieces when they come onto my hand, because they've been 'trained' to come onto my hand? Thanks, Philip
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Post by Philip on Aug 15, 2009 17:56:03 GMT
now they're comfortable with coming to my hand, while it's inside the cage, i've now started puttin my hand outside the cage, at the door entrance, so that they realise that my hand is safe, even outside the cage. They are a bit more afraid of staying on it, while they're outside the cage, and, once they get the treat, they hop off. i was wondering however what to do, when they stay on my hand, eating their treat, do i give them another treat once they've finished? (this is what i have been doing) or do i not give them another treat?
Thanks, Philip
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 15, 2009 17:57:00 GMT
Yes . . . I guess I do, and I mean that you need to still reinforce the good behavior with the occasional treat once it is well learned . . . like every two or three times give them one.
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Post by Philip on Aug 31, 2009 8:59:20 GMT
although pops is away, pumps is still good, and now, when i put my arm into the cage, he'll walk up it and onto my back! It's really funny
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 1, 2009 3:51:17 GMT
Phillip, I have been thinking about the avocado seed thing, and I just have this gut feeling that it is something you shouldn't give them. There is this niggling in the back of my mind that I have read that it is toxic to them. I know the seeds are toxic to people and we are not to eat them.
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Post by Philip on Sept 1, 2009 7:58:13 GMT
yeah, i've taken them out now, i'm not sure whether they're alright, i just read on here that they weremaybe ok, but they're probably not ok then if they nibble them
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