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Post by savvy on Nov 23, 2022 21:52:26 GMT
Oh they are adorable!
I'd leave them as they are for now.
I do have concerns about your cage though, degus can nibble through plastic bases super quick if they want out. It took my first pair ten minutes! A very large all metal cage would be better, preferably one you can add more levels to.
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 24, 2022 2:27:11 GMT
I agree . . . they are very, very sweet!
I also have concerns about your cage . . . it is tiny. It looks like it has a small footprint, but is tall? It's a lot like being a long distance runner, trying to live in the elevator car at the base of the elevator shaft. There just isn't enough livable space to walk/run on. Lots of air above their heads, but not surface space. Degus are ground squirrels, and in the wild they cover a lot of ground (think several kms) foraging for food. I know that space and finances are a big concern ... and we don't want to push you into something that will put you and your degus at risk. Can you tell us what the dimensions of your cage are . . . maybe there are ways to change the configuration and improve the surface area.
As for the question of separation . . . I'm not pushing for you to do that in a hurry. I think that the greater concern is to be sure that you have cages meet all of your needs.
Should you choose to separate them, and go the route of getting them each a companion of the same sex, you need to remember that the breeder you got them from has the males and females all living together. So even if sweet little Mpala is not yet pregnant, there is the potential that any of the females you are looking at may also be pregnant. This does not put you in an easy position, because every potential direction has different complications to also consider and plan for. I'm sorry to be continually bringing up things to think of and deal with.
Please don't get discouraged. These are wonderful little animals, full of personality and character. I absolutely loved having degus through the years that we kept them. They are also quite complex and the learning curve is steep. When we got ours, we were told they were very similar to hamsters, but with longer lives. SO NOT the truth. BUT, I did learn, and I did get through the tough things, and I loved them all! We're here to help you get there too.
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Post by tolisgoal on Nov 24, 2022 13:23:47 GMT
First of all, I didn't realise there were pages in the forum and didn't see your replies until now, sorry about that! The cage's bottom is metal bars like the rest of the cage, it just sits inside of a big plastic bowl to prevent poop and bedding from flying outside + provides extra bedding on the bottom to absorb smells. I add a lot of bedding, at least 2-3 cm off the metal bottom so the degus can't step on the metal at all (and they don't dig in to step on it since it's not deep enough to dig). This is the largest cage I could find and realistically fit in my room and my fathers car for when I return to my hometown during holidays. I plan to screw in wooden layers since as you said it is pretty tall and has lots of unused space, I just haven't had the time to think about it with all the gender and other stuff happening. For example I was also having a hard time finding good food that is affordable (the local pet shops don't bring degu food and also charge a huge markup). I ended up finding Versele Laga Complete pellets for degu and chinchilla for pretty cheap online so I order in bulk and the (not) boys love it, so all good on that end.
The cage dimensions are around 75 x 70 x 45 I measured them this morning to add the diy cage on top, which I have in fact just finished making the walls of:
Also plz don't worry about me getting discouraged. Other than the initial shock I got when I found they were male and female, I really love working for these guys(/girls) and making their lives better. I'm more getting more motivated than discouraged with all the stuff that's been happening. So no worries on that end!
About the getting them a companion part, yikes I didn't think about it that way, they might indeed be pregnant as well. At this point I almost hope the female is pregnant so that issue solves itself, since I've already started on the second cage.
About the second cage, to catch any questions, it's made of metal that shouldn't rust and the gaps in the metal mesh(is this the right word?) are less than 2 cm wide, so no escapes, I hope. I just cut 4 pieces in the same dimensions as their current cage, then connected each part with metal wire facing outwards so the degus can't get hurt by it. The bottom is atm the top of the other cage, so of course I need to add something there, since even not considering bumblefoot as you said, it won't even hold bedding without something on the bottom. Any ideas about both cages are welcome!
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 25, 2022 20:07:25 GMT
Well . . . you have some hurdles to clear with this cage. It is so very small! I understand that you are on a very limited budget, and that you have very limited space, and you need something that will travel well. It's not an easy one to work with. Is the height of the cage 45 cm? You said that you will be changing the wheel . . . can you tell me what diameter you plan to get for the new wheel? The minimum diameter is 30 cm. The reason for that is that any less causes a difficult curvature that can cause damage/injury to the spine of the degus. If your cage is 45 cm tall, that will occupy a large chunk of one wall. I was going to suggest that you add in a secondary level in order to give them more surface space . . . but that could be very difficult to do with a wheel on the wall. I think that you are not at all intimidated by DYI . . . so this may be something you are very adept at tackling and solving!
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Post by tolisgoal on Nov 25, 2022 20:36:38 GMT
My bad I put the dimensions in xyz instead of length-width-height. The length is 75, he width is 45 cm, and the height is around 70, so it is 75x45x70. I think there is definitely enough height to add a second half level (or two if I play it smart), along with a 30 cm diameter wheel. About the wheel, from what I have seen 28cm - 33 cm is the maximum size I can find on wheels. Maybe I could diy the wheel as well I guess with a large round pan but idk how well they will be able to walk on metal and/or if it will hurt their legs. This is the wheel I've found it comes in both 28 and 33cm: I could buy either they are not TOO expensive but I'd rather get the 28 one if it will be ok, both for size and for price. If not though I can always get the 33 one I don't mind that much. Also would love to do the diy one if it's ok for them, a friend of mine can help me with that as well. I was also thinking since I have a second cage that I won't use unless I separate them I could connect the 2 with a tube so they can get on the top one and play there as well. I'm still not sure wether I should separate them or not. If I don't separate them I'm bound to end up with babies right? Also I'm thinking that since the top cage was so easy to make I could just make a second cage at my hometown so I don't have to move this one in the first place. Anyway thanks a lot for all the advice, I've dragged this post a bit long on accident XD. Thank you for all the help, I will start doing some stuff to make the top cage usable for now I guess + order a wheel after I do a little more research. Still kinda worried about what to do (separate or not and when). Thank you again!
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Post by savvy on Nov 26, 2022 0:31:39 GMT
Don't worry about dragging the thread on, there are much longer threads on this forum trust me. I started some of them, lol.
A second cage would work if you take some of the substrate from their first cage with you when you move them. It's a good idea to do this anyway if transporting a distance as it helps them feel more secure. A decent secure transport carrier is much easier to move than a cage anyway. If the move is a permanent one, strip all toys etc out of the cage so the new one has familiar scents.
I'd hold off separating until you are sure there are pups on the way, but not already here.
If you want to start a new thread on your cage upgrade please feel free. We have plenty of members who have customised their cages or built from scratch and they will more than likely feed in with ideas. They are a very resourceful, not to mention clever, bunch.
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Post by savvy on Nov 26, 2022 0:33:47 GMT
Just a quick thought...
Would a second cage, in another part of the room, with a long connecting tube work? It would have to be in sections for cleaning etc, but would give them clear running space.
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Post by tolisgoal on Nov 26, 2022 1:32:28 GMT
The move happens for just the holidays so around 15 days during Xmas and Easter, then for around 2 months during the summer. I will of course be taking their toys with me, as I wasn't playing on buying doubles of those to just leave at my parent's place. And taking some substrate to make them feel at home is pretty smart I didn't think of that.
I guess I will be starting a new thread about the cage once I lurk around looking for cage ideas and decide on something to do. I don't really get what you mean a second cage with a connecting tube though? Like have a large tube on the ground that connects them to another cage? That sounds pretty fun but they are in the living room so doesn't sound doable. The place already is pretty cramped with just the cage there. Fun idea though, I could try it at my parents place, where I will be building a cage from scratch anyway. Anyhow I better focus on making them happy with their current cage first though and think about the other one later. Plz do explain if I misunderstood the idea though.
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Post by savvy on Nov 26, 2022 2:03:14 GMT
I think you got the gist of the idea, but the tube doesn't have to run along the floor, it could be at a height, have several corners, be a bit like a maze; just something a little different and fun. Its an idea I kicked around a few years ago for ferrets, several cages and lots of connecting tubes, but in the end I got neither the space or the ferrets.
First cages are a good practice for later builds, you'll be able to see what works, what doesn't, and I'm sure the degus will offer their opinions.
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 26, 2022 3:34:10 GMT
I'd opt for the 33 cm wheel, if I were you. I'm very glad the cage is 70 cm tall, that makes getting a second level in there much easier.
A question . . . how will be transport your degus when you go home from holidays?
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Post by tolisgoal on Nov 26, 2022 17:43:55 GMT
Most likely in a plastic storage box which atm I use as their sand bath. With bedding and a relatively open top so they don't get scared of being trapped. I'm not too sure tbh. It's around a 3 hour drive to my hometown so I was actually pretty sceptical about if the storage box would work. If I add a little hideout in there they should probably be fine, or so I think. I'm open to suggestions.
Edit: I just looked up the travel guide on degutopia and I guess I could make a small travel cage for them. Shouldn't be too much effort and I'll be able to relax since they can't chew their way out. So I guess I'll also be doing that after some time.
Edit 2: woah d**n looks like travelling for just 3 hours is still pretty long for the little guys. So water, some food/treats in case and I can carry an icepack and cloth as well incase they get too hot, which shouldn't? be a problem at least during the winter? But yeah I will have to be far more careful with them during travel than i thought
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Post by savvy on Nov 26, 2022 18:34:33 GMT
I'd hesitate to put water in with them when they are travelling, food yes, bedding yes, hiding place yes, but I'd stop for a break to give them water; you don't want the water spilling and getting everything wet. I've been out with mine for longer than 3 hours (vet trips) and as long as they have a drink before and after, they are fine. If you are travelling in winter then a snugglesafe would be a good idea. A travel case with ventilation is a must, but make sure there are no draughts.
It was a journey of just over two hours when I first collected the Yorkshire Lasses, they hid the whole journey.
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Post by tolisgoal on Nov 26, 2022 18:54:59 GMT
Ok that relieves me a bit. The degutopia site had some pretty scary stuff about heatstrokes, like: 6. Take some emergency supplies with you to act quickly in the event one of your degus is affected by heatstroke. This should include a plastic container or bowl, a bottle of water (keep this cool if possible, but not icy) and a spare tea towel and ice pack. If you need to use it, pour the water into the container and submerge the affected degu, taking care to support the head above the water. This is to reduce the degu's body temperature quickly. Remove the degu and place them onto the ice pack covered with a tea towel until they no longer feel hot. The quicker you can act, the less chance your degu will suffer permanent neurological damage, organ failure or death. So I was a bit worried about it. I will either be making a full wire cage or use their plastic storage box with a wire top so they can't chew it. About water I'll see what I can do, plenty of time to think about it until the holidays.
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Post by savvy on Nov 26, 2022 19:02:04 GMT
To be honest, the information on degutopia is very out of date. Unfortunately the lady who ran it became very ill, I'm not sure, but I think she may have died, so the site hasn't been updated for well over 10 years.
Also, its never a good idea to get a degu wet, and plunging them into cold water is enough to give them a heart attack. Just keep the car well ventilated if its a warm day and make sure part of the travel case is in the shade so they can get out of the sun.
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Post by tolisgoal on Nov 26, 2022 22:09:27 GMT
Oh I had no clue. I guess I'll be taking the info there with a grain of salt then. I had also heard that they really hate getting wet (sand bath duh). I will be ordering a new wheel now and at the moment I could get 2 28cm wheels for the price of 1 33cm wheel. Are the 2cm off 30 that much of a dealbreaker? I would much rather get 2 of them, so I can eventually use it on the second cage, or just have 2 wheels in general so the degus can run at the same time without doing it on the 2 at a time on that small metal one.
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 27, 2022 2:43:28 GMT
When we had degus, we had a couple of trips where we were completely unable to find someone to care for them while were gone, so I had to make a travel cage. I looked into all kinds of different things, and found that the best, most economical choice at that time was to buy a medium sized dog kennel and modify it. It would have been about 100 cm in length, 50 -60 cm wide, and 75 cm tall. I bought wire mesh and covered the outside, and also bought laminate covered wood to create a base, and two large ledges in the center. This made it kind of heavy but it protected their feet. I made a cage to go around the water bottle to keep it from moving. Our trips were five hour drives, and we covered the cage with towels. We checked them often to make sure they were good. When we arrived at our location, we just moved the cage into the house and they stayed in it. It wasn't as large as the one in our house, but it was still large, and they were quite content for the duration of each trip. It was a great asset to have and we got a lot of use out of it. The only thing that was difficult is that because of the way I covered the exterior with the mesh, I was unable to fold it down flat when it wasn't in use. Had I not wrapped it completely around all the corners it would have been collapsible. Despite that, it was wonderful to have and use. Our degus loved it as much as they loved their fulltime cage.
As for the wheel . . . I wouldn't go with the smaller one. Once they are full grown, their body length will be 6 inches in length. If they are regularly using a wheel of less than 12 inches diameter (30 cm) then the wheel will force an unnatural curvature in their spine while they run and it can cause great pain and injuries. Yes, I think it is a deal breaker.
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Post by tolisgoal on Nov 27, 2022 21:03:41 GMT
I did a little more research and found a 30.8 wheel that costs around the same money the 28cm one does. I'm attaching the pic below. This one might even be a bit better since it's more open so poop and stuff like that won't get stuck in it. Are there any red flags I'm missing here or should I go ahead?
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Post by savvy on Nov 27, 2022 21:07:01 GMT
The only red flag I can see is stability. Would it be possible to attach it to the side of the cage instead of having it freestanding?
Also as its plastic, its chewable.
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Post by deguconvert on Nov 28, 2022 5:01:17 GMT
Same as Savvy. If you can attach it to the wall of the cage it won't tip over, which is safer for your goos. It is a better size, no openings, and a better price. It could be chewed, but you won't know until you try it. If you want to try it. I would probably give it a go.
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Post by winic1 on Nov 28, 2022 5:14:03 GMT
If it can't be attached to the side of the cage, then another solution is to mount it to a heavy board, so that it is securely weighted down and can't tip over or move. We did this with our wheels, we used the little metal mending plates (those little flat pieces of metal with screw holes, made for joining two pieces of wood or for strengthening across a split in wood) across the bottom of the frame, screwed into a heavy flat piece of wood. Also suggest, if you have to do this, to cover the piece of wood with a stick-on linoleum tile before screwing the wheel down to it, makes it waterproof against degu pee. Much easier to keep clean.
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