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Post by teemu on Sept 9, 2022 19:51:05 GMT
Hey all,
I've been monitoring Pipari's growth, and it's starting to look like she's putting on a bit too much weight. Her growth period is pretty much over (she's just reached one year of age), and she is by a good margin the heaviest degu I have. It's also clear that not all of that weight is just size, since when I hold her, her midsection is much thicker than with anyone else. She's not hugely fat or anything, she's 270 grams now, but it's obvious that she doesn't need any more weight.
I'm not sure if I'm giving her too much food. Generally, my understanding is that degus don't overeat, but I'm wondering if her past and her generally troubled nature is making her eat more than she needs to. I have also given her more sunflower seeds than most of them, because it's been important to reward and encourage her when she shows progress (and she is *really* food-motivated). But it's not like she gets sunflower seeds freely at all. So I'm not sure what it is that's causing this.
I guess it might be all of the above, compounded by the fact that she does not want to get out of the cage and run around as much as the others.
I'm wondering what I should do about it. I don't want to start rationing her food since that might just make her hoard even more, and I can't very well force her outside the cage, since that absolutely mortifies her. I'll have to cut her sunflower seeds in any case, but I'm not sure what else I could do to make sure she doesn't get any bigger...
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Post by savvy on Sept 9, 2022 19:56:40 GMT
Whats her body size like compared to the others? Does she have a larger bone structure?
It could be that she's just a larger degu, or just well muscled.
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Post by teemu on Sept 9, 2022 21:36:07 GMT
I think she is slightly larger than the others. Not notably, but side by side she does seem longer. But the main reason I'm thinking that she's got extra weight is that when I hold her, her midsection feels much thicker than anyone else's. All other degus I have have a clear waist. Pulla has a bit of a belly, but even his sides are mostly even. With Pipari, however, her belly and sides do push outwards. It's not something you'd notice greatly from just looking at her, but it's really obvious when I hold her.
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Post by savvy on Sept 9, 2022 21:50:12 GMT
Unless her weight suddenly changes, I wouldn't worry too much, she could just be a naturally larger degu.
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Post by teemu on Sept 9, 2022 22:24:07 GMT
Alright. I'll keep monitoring it. It's been steadily climbing, but I'm assuming that I should be seeing a plateau soon-ish, since she's getting to be full-grown now.
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Post by savvy on Sept 9, 2022 22:55:06 GMT
She will be heavier in the winter too.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 11, 2022 0:12:16 GMT
We had large degus in our home and most of them were between 275 and about 310. The average was probably 300, even with our girls. No one was pudgy, but they were muscular and solidly built. I'd say most had at least a six inch body length, and some would have been just a tad longer.
Like Savvy, I am not alarmed by her weight.
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Post by teemu on Sept 11, 2022 10:48:54 GMT
Looking at her, I think a lot of the weight might be a combination of a stocky build and a larger size. We've noted that Pipari seems to be similar to Pulla in overall build, and when she runs around the kitchen, there's the same slapping sound as her feet hit the floor. None of the other degus, aside from Pulla, do it. Pulla is fairly small, but he is thicker than the girls, and he's certainly not fat. It'll be intresting to see if she starts having the same kind of flatfooted posture as Pulla later on. It's possible that they are from the same breeder, or at least the same area of degus, so this might actually be a trait of the degus there...
Somewhat unrelated, but while Pipari gets big and strong, Posso seems to be slimming down. She weighs only 214 grams at the moment, and she's not small in frame. Very slender right now. This has happened before, and I see her eating regularly and with a good appetite, so I don't think she has any teeth issues or the like, at least. I'll have to keep monitoring her as well.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 11, 2022 22:14:10 GMT
Do monitor her. That seems very slight to me. That may well be because all my goos were so large. Has she been this low weight before? If she is eating well and still losing weight, you may need to have her looked at for diabetes.
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Post by teemu on Sept 11, 2022 22:21:12 GMT
Do monitor her. That seems very slight to me. That may well be because all my goos were so large. Has she been this low weight before? If she is eating well and still losing weight, you may need to have her looked at for diabetes.
There was a dip earlier, I think at the early parts of this year. She generally does not like to be handled, so I noticed that she had actually gotten really skinny since the last time I had examined her closely, and she was weighing around 210g or so.
Mind, all of these girls normally weigh around 240 grams or so, so it's not a huge loss (and Limppu is 210g-220g normally). I am given to understand that my degus are very much on the small side. Pulla, who is stockier than them, only weighs 230 to 240 grams.
She is eating well, and I have not really noticed signs of diabetes like constant thirst or peeing more than usual. But I will monitor her weight in case it keeps going down. I've given her some extra seeds (which she eats very quickly and hungrily) to get her a bit more calories, so we'll see if she picks up again.
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Post by teemu on Sept 11, 2022 22:26:19 GMT
I found the topic, and it was actually in November of last year, when they were about 8 months old. Her weight dipped to sub-200 from the normal 200g, and then returned to normal without further problems. That was when they were growing up, though, so this is a bit more notable.
She has always had a very lean build in any case. She is the most delicate-looking of all my degus, even when she has had more weight on her.
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Post by teemu on Sept 12, 2022 19:29:40 GMT
Posso has lost a few more grams over the past couple of days, it seems. She's really thin now that I'm paying attention to it. I'll monitor her for this week, and if this situation does not take an upturn, I will take her to the vet. I don't think this is an emergency, since she's eating and drinking and her bowels work (she actually eats as much as I give her when it comes to seeds or nuts or the like, and I've seen her at the food bowl), but she is skinny and having her get a medical checkup would be good in any case.
I am giving her a good deal of extra food now to see if she picks up any extra weight.
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Post by teemu on Sept 13, 2022 10:50:31 GMT
Seems to have lost a gram or two over the last night, but that could have been just normal weight fluctuation. Monitoring continues, but it's not looking great. She ate a whole handful of seeds and peanut yesterday, so I really would not expect her weight to be going *down*...
She was 214g a few days ago, 207g yesterday, and today the scale is showing 205g. I'm going to be updating the plan so that if there is a downward shift tomorrow again, I'm calling the vet. No need to dawdle if it's this clear. She's lost a lot of mass and her spine and flanks can clearly be felt. I would call today already, but I'm gone the whole day, so tomorrow it is.
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Post by moletteuk on Sept 13, 2022 13:32:48 GMT
This seems a bit odd since she is eating so well, and I agree it's worrying when she has lost further while you have been offering high calorie foods. Makes me wonder if she could have some kind of parasite?? Also worth a diabetes test since a urine dip stick is easy to do.
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Post by teemu on Sept 13, 2022 13:39:37 GMT
This seems a bit odd since she is eating so well, and I agree it's worrying when she has lost further while you have been offering high calorie foods. Makes me wonder if she could have some kind of parasite?? Also worth a diabetes test since a urine dip stick is easy to do.
Yes, logically something is going on, since if you put a lot of food into an animal, those calories must go *somewhere*. I will ask them to do a full checkup and a diabetes test. I'd be very surprised if it's diabetes, since she's young and is on a very tightly watched diet with no carbs or sugars. But these things don't always behave in expected ways, and she's way too skinny, so it's best to eliminate any ambiguities.
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Post by saggy on Sept 13, 2022 20:31:34 GMT
Just on the off chance - she's not suddenly always on the wheel like my runty one? She always ate loads but was forever excercising whether on the wheel or running around the cage never chilled for long and never much more than 200 her whole life (if that) as wouldn't sit still enough to weigh most the time and could always see her spine. Always ran more in breeding season or when hormonal too? She would run long after the lights went out and everyone else in bed. The other two never stood a chance at catching her even when on a mission to as she was so super fit compared to them. She's lived to 7.5 without one injury or illness until this blinking tumour so not necessarily bad to be on the smaller side.
I suppose she was smaller in frame as well though.
I'm literally shouting at her to get off the d**n wheel every 5 minutes tonight!
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Post by teemu on Sept 13, 2022 23:56:51 GMT
They actually were very low activity for a couple of months due to how hot it was, and they've only really started using the wheel again over the past couple of weeks. And even then it's usually Pulla who's running in it. Posso spends a lot of her time either playing with a carabiner clip I've clipped onto the cage bars, eating or pushing a block toy around. So it's really strange how she's dropping weight like this.
She's always been quite lean, but now that I've checked my notes, she actually weighed 240g at one point. So she's come down by a whopping 1/6th of her body weight. The last time she lost weight, I figured it was due to her sister pushing her around and preventing her from eating in peace, but now she's the ruler of her own cage and eats a lot...
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Post by teemu on Sept 14, 2022 15:24:33 GMT
Her weight seems to now have stabilized at around 205-210g, depending on the moment and how much she has eaten. No change from yesterday. Which is good since I've had some trouble reaching my vet today. Will try to reach her again tomorrow.
Posso seems to not be too intrested in peanuts today, which might be understandable since she has eaten a whole load of them over the past few days. She'd now eating sunflower seeds instead. I'm having a bit of trouble gauging whether her unwillingness is due to genuinely not wanting to eat them, or because she's pretty timid and always has some trouble finding enough peace of mind to eat when she's on my lap. I guess I could try putting treats in the cage and taking Pulla out instead while she eats, but I'm a bit worried that she'll just stash a lot of it and then they'll fight.
She is very active and energetic, in any case. The reason it took me so long to realize that she's lost all that weight is because her behavior has been the same and very upbeat in general.
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Post by teemu on Sept 14, 2022 15:36:13 GMT
She might actually be having some trouble eating today, she was fiddling around with a peanut for a long time but it had not really been eaten in the end. She ate all the sunflower seeds though, so I'll keep giving her more of those. Also going to see if she'd want some CC. Thinking about it, I see her eating often, but I'm not sure how much she actually eats. It might be that she spends a long time eating small amounts of food, like single pellets or pieces of hay. She eats the seeds very hungrily, so her appetite is not at fault, so it might be some teeth issue. The sunflower seeds are probably a lot easier to eat with a sore mouth than pellets, hay or peanuts. Whatever it is, it'll get sorted as soon as she goes to the vet.
I managed to get a pretty good picture of her, you can see how her sides have sunken in:
imgur.com/a/CdEnSGM
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Post by savvy on Sept 14, 2022 17:49:10 GMT
This is sounding like a mouth issue of some sorts. Has she had a dental check?
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