Lump (possibly cancerous awaiting results, amputation?)

[skittish]

Hi everyone

I am sorry to come to the forum seeking advice. I do have some good news first. I last posted about Theo and bonding with two girls after the loss of his brother, I am delighted to say that they have been successfully living together for just over a year now.

Now the not so good news, last week we discovered a swelling on Theo's forearm (near the elbow). We took him in for an appointment with a vet (unfortunately not our usual vet, who was not consulting that day) who advised a fine needle aspiration under anaesthetic.  Fortunately we could book him in for the procedure with our regular vet later in the week who confirmed that he wanted to go ahead with the procedure. He explained that in the first instance they would do an aspiration instead of a biopsy as due to the lump's hardness he said that the stitches mightn't heal well as the skin would be very tight. However, he did say that the results are not always diagnostic, and sometimes a biopsy of the lump is required.

Due to the location of the lump, which apparently goes around the circumference of the limb, a removal of just the lump would be very difficult and he said he considered amputation would probably be the only route available if the lump was cancerous and it was determined that it did need to be removed and we wanted to remove it.

He said he was able to take some good samples from the lump and they have been sent away to the lab for analysis. Results should be back in 5 working days so hopefully will be back no later than Thursday or Friday this week. We are booked in for a consult on Friday morning if they are back by then, to discuss the results and next steps in further detail. Hopefully the results will tell us something.

I am very nervous. I have not dealt with lumps in any of my other degus before, so this is completely new territory. Theo is at around 7.5-8 years old (exact age unknown as we adopted him from a shelter) and has fairly severe dental disease so he receives regular conscious burring of his incisors every 4-6 weeks. He last had an anaesthetised dental in January and again last week when they did the aspiration. They found in his recent dental that he had some small ulcers in his mouth/tongue where his teeth have been overgrown and rubbing and an infection in one of his roots, which we have been prescribed antibiotics for. 

He is an extremely bright and active degu. The lump itself doesn't appear to cause him pain in anyway and he runs and jumps and plays with his toys with no sign there is anything wrong. His teeth seem to be causing him more issues at the moment as he is becoming very drooly.

I don't know if it is my imagination, but the lump seems to be getting more prominent. There seems to be less fur on it and it seems to be getting pinker. I've struggled to take photos of it because he won't let me hold his arm out in a way to take a good photo.

I know it's a little pre-emptive as we don't have the results of the lump aspiration yet, but I just wondered if anyone had any experiences with/thoughts about limb amputation in degus? When our vet mentioned it briefly he sounded reluctant, and I would also be very hesitant about it as it is a major surgery, however we would like to explore all possibilities, even if we decide not to go down that route in the end. We simply want him to have the best quality of life for as long as possible, without causing any undue distress for him.

I'll post again after the consult on Friday when I know more.

Thanks everyone. Have a good evening.

[savvy]

I'm so sorry to hear about Theo.

I'm posting a link to a thread by bouncy, one of her degus has recently gone through an amputation deguworld.proboards.com/thread/23511/goos and you may find it useful reading.

Keep us posted as to how he's doing.

[bouncy]

Yep! Savvy's right. Spidey has had a few lumps before. One was on his chest, and the other on his butt. There is apparently another near his heart internally, which was a regrowth of the original, but they kept scraping as far as the sternum and stopped. I had each lump tested, and they were shown to be aggressive. Spidey is a similar age to Theo, and my goositter says he was fluffed and fed up yesterday, but there's also arthritis, so it's just old age She's worried he won't hang on until I get back, but I've told her it may just be his time.

Smasheygoo (aka Spud) developed degu MRSA in February in one of his hind legs. We had months of daily games for antibiotics, and it cleared up, but destroyed the internal tissue of the knee. Imagine a goo who can turn his foot in whatever direction he fancies

The day before I came back to Cyprus, he had the leg amputated. He did absolutely fine. The minute he was over the anaesthesia and dropped back in with his brother, he was happy. A few hours later, he was running around the kitchen floor, having already adapted. My best friend moved into my place for the first week to do the daily wound cleaning, and he was just as hard to catch as before. He's thriving, charging around all over the place, so I think I'm forgiven

Must get to the store for their sunflower and pumpkin seeds.......oh, er, I mean bribery material!

Basically, Degus are remarkably adaptable. It took Spud no time at all to learn about lifestyle with one leg, a similar time for Sausage to work out which side to shove him so he falls over, and everything is now back to normal again! If it comes to it, Theo will have nothing to worry about. He won't be able to hold food in his paws to eat it, but will likely use the remaining on to hold it still on the floor.

[skittish]

Hi Savvy and Bouncy, thank you so much for your responses, it is really appreciated!

Thank you Savvy for providing the link to the thread - I had read of some of the lump threads before posting but missed this one, so I will take some time to read it through tomorrow evening. I know it's going to be very useful

Thank you Bouncy for sharing your experiences! How old was Spud when he had his op? I am concerned for Theo's age that a major surgery like this wouldn't be in his best interests. But I know degus can live for longer (9 or 10 years I think is possible?), so I don't want to rule it out entirely on his age but it is a worry for me, especially as he because of his existing dental disease which does put a strain on him. I have no doubt that Theo will adapt to life as a 3 legged degu, albeit a bit more wobbly and probably less graceful, and my worries mostly concern the recovery period and how he will respond to the surgery (not to mention how I will care for wound cleaning/dressing and giving meds - he is a little terror as it is to give meds to, and I can't imagine trying to get meds into him whilst also not putting stress on the wound!). It sounds like Spud bounced back after the op like a champ which is encouraging (By the way you have an incredible best friend!!) and it would be my dream if Theo responded similarly! I laughed when you mentioned how hard to catch Spud is. It sounds like he and Theo have that in common.

I forgot to mention in my original post that we had Theo booked in again for an vet appointment the next day (now yesterday) as I noticed a lot of yellowish white substance under his tongue and it was starting to smell, so I suspected the infection from his tooth has spread. Again we were not able to see our usual vet (he only works a couple of days per week sadly for us!) but the vet we saw was the one who saw him initially when we found the lump. She confirmed there is a bad infection under his tongue and has prescribed an additional type of antibiotic to give in addition to the one we have already been dosing. What fun that has been to encourage him to take it..not!

She also sadly confirmed my thoughts about the lump and that it does appear to be growing and is also much pinker in colouration.

Thank you both again for your support and guidance  I will update after our consult on Friday

[deguconvert]

I'm so sorry for this news, Skittish! I have been following along, and am distressed to hear that the infection in his mouth is worse and requires stronger, additional antibiotics. I can imagine the stress to both you and him, getting those meds in. Friday seems so far away, right now. This is not any easy decision to make. Sending you hugs, love!!

[bouncy]

Spud is only a year younger than Spidey, which should bode well.

Spidey struggled under anaesthesia because of the position of the lump, but his brother Silly has been fine. My worry right now is how Silly will cope before I get home now his brother has left him alone.

[skittish]

Hi again, just a quick update as I had a phone call today from our vet and the results have indicated it is a fibrous sarcoma (the lab couldn't be more specific).

Thanks for your well wishes deguconvert. We have to trick him by giving him a squirt of tasty food first and then quickly switching up the syringes and hopefully inserting the meds syringe before he notices . But he is wise to our tricks and has lightning fast reactions so it can get pretty frustrating for us both !

Bouncy - I'm so so sorry about Spidey. Thinking of you and Silly. It sounds like Spidey was a real character and loved by everyone here

[skittish]

Hi, we had our vet appointment yesterday. The lump is a fibrous sarcoma which is locally aggressive. We discussed amputation in great detail and my partner and I are agreed that we don't want to do this option. We both just feel that all things considered the surgery and recovery would be too much for him. I only want what's best for him and I don't know if this is the right decision. I wish could see into the future and know if he would be better with the surgery or not. We don't have long before the option of surgery is off the table, as it's growing quickly, and even yesterday my vet said he felt it was on the cusp of whether amputation would get all of it.

We'll keep monitoring the lump and taking him in for checkups, and we know the timeframe we're looking at is months, maybe weeks, at best, but hopefully we can keep him as comfortable as possible until that time comes.

Good news at the moment is that the infection in his mouth appears to be subsiding. The smell is gone and there is less gunk under his mouth. We'll continue to treat with the new antibiotics and hopefully it will be gone really soon so he won't have to deal with that on top of everything else.

As I write he is currently spinning and chewing one of the wooden toys in the enclosure, the sound usually drives me a bit potty, but now I never want it to stop...

[deguconvert]

I am so sorry, Skittish! I, along with all the rest of us, was really hoping for better results. I would also be very loathe to put my degu through the trauma of this surgery. I think I can accurately say, we are all with you in this. Don't be afraid to say whatever you need to say. We know these days are precious and painful. Sending you big hugs and lots of love.

[moletteuk]

I think given the dental issues and age, I probably wouldn't choose the amputation myself, but it's a very personal decision. Younger degus tend to cope with amputations well, but my degus used to struggle even with a leg strain with the knock on effects of eating with one hand, so it can be difficult to predict. If you don't get a good margin on cancerous tumours, they always come back, and they quite often seem to come back even if you think you got it all.

A few of us have had degus with tumours that we decided not to remove and the degu has gone on to live a good life for up to a year or so. They can manage quite well with surprisingly large tumours.

Did they find a cause for the mouth infection? Or is this ongoing from a spur that has already been removed?

[skittish]

Hi everyone

Deguconvert - Thank you so much for your kind words. They really mean a lot  At the moment I feel really torn about my decision - that I am not trying everything in my power and like I am failing him by not trying this, but I worry so much about his recovery and possible complications, and whether the potential he could live well with an amputation would really outweigh just living his life with the lump and managing his comfort as long as possible. 

Moletteuk - Thank you. It's a bit of a jumble in my brain right now, but you have articulated it very well. The slim margin and the possibility it has already spread beyond what we can see and feel are concerns our vet raised as well and the main reason why my partner is adverse to amputation - what if we went through with it and it came back after all? I was quite pessimistic in my last comment, however, since then I have begun to feel, if not optimistic, at least calmer about the future. We've started taking daily photos to track the size of the lump so we can see the growth over time. A year would be so good, but we will take each day as it comes. Our vet said decision time would be if the lump ulcerates, if it affects mobility to an unreasonable degree, or he is not happy in his daily activities (which we will know best), but fortunately he is still such a happy and active degu.

Re the infection - We don't know the origin of the infection unfortunately. When they did the dental they said it was localised to the root of a tooth and they noted separately that he had a small ulcer under his tongue, which we think was just a weak point for the infection to spread to and take hold. We were prescribed Baytril initially but when it was clear that the infection had grown/spread we were prescribed Sulfatrim as well. The Sulfatrim seems to be working really well and within a couple of days of starting the course, the smell was gone, the pus under his tongue is much less as well and the drooling is clearing up.

Thanks again to everyone who has commented. I feel less alone knowing I can come here

[skittish]

I noticed a small red spot on the lump early this evening. Checked it again later in the evening and the skin has split and there is bright red skin/blood(?). I'm ringing the vets tomorrow when they open about a possible appointment. I don't know whether to be alarmed, but our preferred vet doesn't work Monday-Wednesday and my fear is it worsening over the weekend and not knowing what to do. We had a routine appt booked for Thursday next week to monitor the lump, but this has completely freaked me out. He's as bright and lively as usual. It's not actively bleeding.

[skittish]

I've embedded a photo in this comment, hopefully you will be able to see it.

His fur looks mucky because he has been drooling quite a bit today

He's currently spinning his toys and behaving like he usually does.

[savvy]

To me, it looks like he's been chewing at it.

[skittish]

Thanks savvy. We've not seen him worrying it, but of course it would only take a moment and we obviously don't see him for every second of the day. Not sure what this means for him now though, as I have no experience with lumps. I have a lot of questions going around in my head right now.... is it going to be a point for infection, do small wounds like this heal on lumps, or is it likely to progress, how do I best care for it etc? It's late here so I need to log off, but I will post again tomorrow.

[savvy]

Bumblebee chewed at his lump when it was getting in his way. It was removed without issue a few days later.

[moletteuk]

The skin is probably quite thin as it has stretched so probably damages quite easily. I think some kind of antiseptic spray would help prevent infection if you can find something petsafe, a dry spray would be great. Or I know antibacterial powder used to be easily available.

[skittish]

Thank you both. The cut had scabbed over by the next morning and is still scabbed over today. I had a telephone appointment with my vet on Friday and sent across photos of the lump over a 3 day period to show the progression. We wonder if he might have caught it/knocked it on something and, as you say moletteuk, the skin is very thin, so it just split. He's showing no signs of agitating it fortunately and the cut is scabbed over and not gotten bigger. The vet said he wouldn't immediately prescribe any creams or ointments as they can soften the skin and make it easier to split, but at our appointment on Thursday I will ask if he has any recommendations for dry powders or a spray suitable for degus.

I will keep you updated on his health and any changes, but I think for now it's just going to be daily monitoring and making sure he's still happy. He's currently spinning and rattling his favourite spin toy, so I think I can confidently say he's feeling quite content at the moment

[bouncy]

I've used Germolene liquid skin on Spud before without any issue, but cleaning is all that's needed. It does look like an actual hole, though, so watch out for anything getting inside.

[skittish]

Hi everyone. I have not posted in a few days, so this will probably come as a surprise, but Theo's infection on his tongue which seemed to be improving initially, changed and expanded and it was so extensive in his mouth that we decided to euthanise him as the prognosis was not positive. He meant the world to me and I am struggling to comprehend it all right now. I will try to post more when I feel up to it to explain the course of events, but I wanted to let you all know now as you have all been so kind in supporting Theo.