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Post by hpdegus on Apr 13, 2022 11:51:28 GMT
Just called, the vet that did Tom's surgery is out for the day, but back tomorrow. The tech said to call back tomorrow morning right when they open, they usually have same day cancelations so they should be able to fit me in quickly. I kind of want to hear if the vet felt anything first though, since its a 1.5 hour drive each way.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 13, 2022 18:01:53 GMT
UGH! Yeah . . . I would want to know the same thing . . . before setting out! Are you being affected by the snow storms?
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 13, 2022 19:48:37 GMT
Nope, it's gorgeous here! I'm now far enough east (right by the ocean) that the weather is completely different. It's been a bit rainy in the mornings (had surprise hail storm on Saturday) but it's stunning by the early afternoon! Are you being hit by the storms DC?
Oh! I almost forgot! I wanted to thank you DC for a recommendation you made on a different post (I think on allergies?). The goos have not been thrilled with me examining them, so I've gotten a lot of scratches on my hands. They normally would have been red for days, but I did an Epsom salt soak and the redness was gone immediately! So thank you!
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 13, 2022 20:31:31 GMT
Sorry, I don't have any ideas for you, and I'm finding it difficult to tell whether to reassure you that the tube bump just sounds like an oddity or say definitely take him to the vet since he has had a few things going on.
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 14, 2022 0:27:41 GMT
Savvy, just checked his poops! As normal, he's pooped several times in the past 20 minutes in the playpen. He's also peed at least twice as well. So that's good at least.
I don't really know what to think either Molette. Fingers crossed it's just some weirdness of his. But preparing mentally for the worst.
Good news is that he is as active and happy as ever. Other than not really gaining weight and this bump, he looks and acts quite healthy. So no matter what happens, at least he doesn't seem to be in too much pain.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 14, 2022 2:26:15 GMT
Nope . . . no storms per say, but icy, cutting winds with sideways snow in them . . . yes. Not enough to really make much of an impact, except to make you cold and uncomfortable.
I'm thrilled to hear that it has helped your hands so well! We give our little dog Epsom salts soaks as well, because his allergies show up as hot spots. AND his allergy season starts with the disappearance of snow and the revealing of the grasses. It helps him enough to that I bathe him at least once a week. I think he kind of likes the warm water and the massage he gets so that he stays IN THE WATER as well. He will NEVER admit it though. ROFL!!
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 14, 2022 12:33:33 GMT
Ugh, wind can be awful! Hopefully it calms down soon for you all! Haha, of course he would never admit it! I'm glad it helps him though
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 14, 2022 12:35:39 GMT
Called the vet first thing this morning and the surgery tech who helped with Tom's tail amputation was actually the one to answer the phone. She'll relay my message to the vet, asking about the lump/swelling, but she said she'd think it would be best to get him in sooner rather than later. They had a cancelation, so I'll be taking Tom in first thing tomorrow morning.
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Post by bouncy on Apr 14, 2022 13:14:17 GMT
Fingers crossed for you and Tom!
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 15, 2022 0:39:45 GMT
Tom is currently racing around the play area, being chased by his brother He has also decided that climbing my torso to get to the couch is the best! photos.app.goo.gl/cjxgXvLtvwsMpSvn7
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 15, 2022 4:37:47 GMT
YAY!!!! That is AWESOME!! Keep it up, Tom. Well done, Hpdegus!
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 15, 2022 12:34:27 GMT
Just finished with the vet. We're scheduling surgery for next Friday.
In more detail, vet was able to feel the lump really well. She said it actually most likely is his right testicle. She said it felt lumpy, not smooth, and possibly like one of the tubes had been pushed out.
Her thoughts are that it could have lost blood flow or become fibrous for some reason. It could also be testicular cancer, though she hasn't heard of it in degus before. And it doesn't seem to be common in chinchillas or cavies. But testicular cancer seems like it generally doesn't become metastatic.
There are obviously risks with this. And its possible it isn't going to be an issue in the future, but he's relatively healthy right now. So I think it would be better to do something quickly and if he passes under sedation, at least he isn't in pain.
Thoughts?
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Post by bouncy on Apr 15, 2022 13:05:52 GMT
He always look so cute in photos!
If the tube has been pushed out, isn't that effectively a hernia? We've had those on here before. I've also not heard of testicular cancer in degus or rodents. It's obviously not holding him back, though.
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 15, 2022 17:20:43 GMT
He's definitely my most photogenic goo!
I think technically, possibly? But aren't hernias usually considered when a portion of bowel pokes through a weakened wall? I think she said this might actually be the epidydmis, but I could be mistaken. And that it should be able to slide back in, but it might be that the fibrous tissue is preventing that from happening (or maybe caused the issue in the first place).
Do you know how treatment went for those degus? Or I guess neutering of older males? Tom is approximately 4.5 now, so I would assume middle aged ish.
I really really appreciate this vet. She spent 20 minutes just sitting and talking everything through with me so I could figure out what would be the best option here. I didn't feel rushed or pushed to make any choices, which was great!
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 15, 2022 18:30:04 GMT
I don't remember anything similar to this on the forum before. A hernia is a general term for anything poking through a weakened wall where it shouldn't, it can apply to several things.
Is the surgery to remove the testicle? Subject to a change of plan once they get in there? I guess Tom's age is in favour of doing the operation and his less than perfect health would be a negative against doing it. I think if you had a good conversation with the vet and you know you are in good hands then you should absolutely do as the vet advises and try not to second guess it.
I'm disappointed for you that it turned out to be something the vet is concerned about, I was hoping it would be nothing to worry about.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 15, 2022 19:47:42 GMT
Ditto, Moletteuk.
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 15, 2022 23:25:39 GMT
Ah, that makes sense, Molette.
Yep, that's the current plan! Obviously things could change when surgery starts though.
It was a really good conversation. She didn't press me into one decision or the other, kept saying that neither was the wrong option.
Should spell out what we talked about though. First option was trying to aspirate the lump, or take am ultrasound. I vetoed those as stand alone, since he would need to be sedated. And if they showed anything, he would need to be sedated again, which is more risk.
Second was monitoring. If it is just fibrosis and he isn't in pain (he didn't show any pain when she was manipulating the lump) then it would be fine to not do anything. But the risk is that things could get worse and we might miss our relatively healthy Tom window.
Third is surgery. Definitely risky. But again, if something needs to be done, I would want it to be when he has the best chance of making it through surgery. Vet said she isn't worried about the surgery itself, just him waking up. She did say he did surprisingly well on that end last time.
Again, she didn't really give her opinion one way or the other. She said there wasn't an incorrect option here. But she has made the decision for her chins before, deciding to be proactive and if they pass under sedation, at least they aren't in pain.
I wish I didn't second guess myself. On one hand I would prefer to wait, so we don't take unnecessary risks and potentially lose him. But on the other hand I know he isn't gaining weight. He's happy, but will he just get worse on the weight department? If we waited too long and he didn't make it through surgery I would be so upset with myself.
I know I'm the only one who can make the decision, but I would really love any thoughts or advice anyone has.
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 16, 2022 0:24:41 GMT
Forgot to add, I did ask if I should give pain meds or antibiotics. Vet said no to the antibiotics, but if he needs pain meds I should feel free to give them. They'll start him on antibiotics/pain meds after the surgery.
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Post by titchycatnipsandwich on Apr 16, 2022 8:12:46 GMT
For what it’s worth: different issue (chest/lungs) but I faced the same decision with River last week, and I chose to try and treat, for the same rationale - and he was ~10, there was no “young and healthy” about him! He’d had a cancerous lump removed in January, and I worked on the premise that if it was cancer again I’d let him go, but I wanted to treat it if it were treatable.I had to let him go, but I don’t regret trying to determine whether it was treatable or not.
In a more similar vein, I’ve had two of my male goos neutered, and that sounds like a more similar surgery. Both of mine were for quality of life issues (neutering = can live with a pack of girls instead of alone, neither goo did well at male-male introductions), and post-op was tough for both of them, 5 years apart and with two different vets doing the op. They chew their abdominal stitches, and if they don’t their girlfriends do, they hate abdominal wound cleaning and one of them hated syringe feeding with an absolute passion (River used to beg for syringes, on the other hand…) Even so, both surgeries were worth doing to give them both a good quality of life.
My feeling on this has always been, if I can afford to do it (and let afford mean to you whatever it means to you in terms of time and money, everyone is in a different boat) then do it. If I can’t afford to do it, I talk to the vet about the best way forward. Does that help?
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Post by hpdegus on Apr 16, 2022 21:51:23 GMT
Thank you for your reply Titchy! And I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like River lived a very full (and long!) life.
Yes, it would essentially be neutering Tom, though that may change based on what the vet sees once she starts the operation. Oh no, good to know that recovery is a bit of a pain! Tom didn't mess with his tail post-amputation, but he prefers to not be handled, so wound cleaning is not a fun prospect. May I ask how old your boys were when they were neutered?
And really, thank you, this has really helped. I can afford it, time and money wise, it's just a worry of losing him too soon. I lost Ollie not too many months ago and while he was happy until the end, I feel guilty that his decline was so prolonged. If this is something treatable, I really don't want to watch Tom wither away when I could have done something.
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